wanna stay legal

[woodview]

I'm wondering if anyone knows what the regulations are regarding taking a dog afield? I know I'd read somewhere that you're banned from training afield through a certain part of the summer. (obvious reasons with new clutches)

I want to get my new dog some experience with wild birds as soon as I can but definately not going to do so unless I know I'm legal.

[catman71]

There is a rule, but I don't know it. But as the summer winds down I often take my dogs out to H&R shooting preserve north of St. Joe, when the hens are done laying I get them at a reasonable rate(they aren't real pretty) and get in a few tune ups way before the season starts. Just bring lots of water to cool down your dog. Hope this helps.

[charliepete2]

Legally you can't work a dog on public land from April 16 to July 14th in Minnesota. After that while it is legal, it may not be the best idea. Many grouse and pheasant chicks aren't developed thoroughly and an unsteady dog might catch a few. I leave my own hotspots alone so there will be plenty of birds come fall.

If you are new to hunting dogs keep in mind that if you work a dog in real hot weather bad things can happen quickly. It doesn't take much to kill them, especially if you have a hard charging dog with a thick coat. If you get out and work your dog in this heat I'd recomend starting out early in the morning and stay near a water source. Getting them soaked down before they even start running is a good idea.

[gundoglily]

While it is legal to have and train your dogs in the field after July 14, it would not be legal to have them hunt or chase wild birds, as this could result in many game violations,such as hunting out of season, hens gotten, maybe having no license and stamps.

You can get a permit form the dnr, at no cost, for a dog training permit and then purchase birds from a game farm.

That way you will be legal and the dog will get experience on birds. Or better yet, join a shooting preserve.

[charliepete2]

Gundoglilly....I think you might be mistaken about pursuing game birds in the off season with dogs. Here is the law as it is written in the handbook

Dog Training

A person may not train hunting dogs afield from April 16 to July

14, except by special permit. A person may obtain a free special permit

to train hunting dogs afield on land owned by the trainer or on

other land with written permission of the owner. The written permission

must be carried while training the dogs. Applications are available

through the DNR Information Center and regional DNR

Enforcement offices.

A person training a dog afield and carrying a firearm may only

have blank cartridges and shells in possession when the season is not

open for any game bird, except by permit. An organization or individual

may obtain a free permit to use firearms and live ammunition

on domesticated birds or banded game birds from game farms for

holding field trials and training hunting dogs."

There are actually cover dog trials that utilize wild birds and take place out of season. If you've got a dog that grabs hen's out of season what's to stop him from grabbing them during the season when they are still illegal?

[woodview]

I'd already been thinking, and worried about, younger birds. I know that when I raised wild birds as a teenager it seemed like they were flying just about the time they came out of the shell (little exageration there, but they fly pretty young so I was thinking later summer would probably be ok). My concern would not be their flying ability but that they wouldn't know when to and she'd nab one.

I was actually thinking to ask opinions on how soon people thought it would be 'safe' as well as legal in my original post. I don't want the dog catching any birds, or messing up younger clutches - any opinions on when it wouldn't be as likely to do harm?

The heat is definately something I've been worrying about. So far I've been limitting myself to early morning yard work and some work like 'heel', 'here' and whoa throughout the day.

How much do the shooting preserves run? Any opinions on which ones are better around the st. cloud/ foley area?

And yes this is my first bird dog. Sorry for the rookie questions.

Thanks for the replies.

[4FOR]

I had a talk with a dnr agent this spring on this and he said that it is illegal even on private land . he all so said it will depend on the officer and the circumstances on which he was called to check it. its not right but thats the way the law reads

[duckbuster]

While driving around today I started thinking about the training in the fields law before 7-15 and would like some feed back on a question.

The main reason we cannot train in the fields I believe is because of the birds that are nesting and the fact that we might uproot the nest. If that is indeed the case than here is my question.

Why can farmers cut every blade of grass along the highways that ARE NOT part of their property well before that 7-15 date?

Thanks!!

[LABS4ME]

Go get 'um D.B.!!!!! If I were King, that whole practice would end. It's public property. If you want the hay off of it, you can pay the state for it.

Good Luck!

Ken

[duckbuster]

You mean to tell me that they do not even pay for that? Gees I think those round bails go for somewhere in the nieghborhood of 300 bucks.

LABS are you going up to Princeton this weekend?

[WAG416]

Quote:

---

Why can farmers cut every blade of grass along the highways that ARE NOT part of their property well before that 7-15 date?

---

Correct me if I am wrong, But I recall the date you can start mowing ditches may begin after 6-15, not 7-15.

Unless I'm misinterpreting this arguement.

WAG

[woodview]

As far as the hay goes,

Think I'd rather see the farmers cutting and using it rather than paying guys to just mowe it, as I believe is the practise now.

Maybe something like being allowed during a two week period later in the summer/fall so it wouldn't mess with the young and yet grows enough by winter that there would be cover for wildlife, while short enough to accomplish the safety aspect they're after.

That way even if they're not paying for it, our tax dollars to the highway dept can go to the roads.

[Rost]

I am not certain on what date the farmers can start mowing ditches. I know that my father just finished mowing the ditches adjacent to our land back in MN. I do know that he usually cuts them in July.

$300 a bale??? Are you smoking ditchweed?? I just called the Madison livestock barn and asked what a good round bale (alfalfa) goes for? $30-$40 was the answer. And that is alfalfa- not ditch grass.

In my opinion, for every pheasant (if any) killed by mowing in July, there's a possibily of saving the life of a deer or even a human. Cut ditches keep our roads safe and helps insurance rates.

And believe it or not, it does't make our farmers rich

[duckbuster]

I think you guys are misunderstanding my question/argument.

I want to know why I can't train my dog in a field before 7-15 but a farmer can cut grass that does not belong to him/her before the date.

If there are worries about the nesting in the fields I do believe there is some nesting going on along side of the highways. So what is the difference?

As far as the price of a round bale I will ask my friend if the weed was good that he was smoking. I was just quoting what he was telling me. I know absolutely nothing about hay and it's price. Sorry for the misinformation.

[LABS4ME]

Rost, don't want to get in a [PoorWordUsage]ing match, BUT, it is public property and if I or my kid wants to hunt the ditch, we should have the right to do so. You should be able to mow a couple hundred feet either side of the farmstead and call er' quits... I even stopped a couple of years ago and talked to a farmer and asked why he was burning off the ditchs in November, his reply was he wanted the snow to blow across the road and not get trapped in the ditch , then I said to bad it looked like it might hold a bird or two and he said he didn't want anyone hunting along his land...... didn't know he had the authority to determine that! Plain and simple that is a decidng factor in why a lot of the ditches are mowed. You are correct that the hay doesn't have a lot of value as most of the time you just see the round bales rotting in the ditches. I gotta believe we will produce a lot more birds (not just pheasant, but also ducks and a lot of songbirds) if the ditches are left alone. I've thought long and hard about a program that would overseed the ditches into Native Grasses as opposed to the brome that comprises the majority of them. Think of the amount of acreage in a township that could be utilized for game production if that was the case. I don't buy the insurance/human safety argument.... SORRY.

Good Luck!

Ken

[gundoglily]

The other persons who should share the blame of mowen ditches are those people from the 'burbs who are purchasing acreage in the country, building their home and still want the clean look of the 'burbs, so mow all the ditches. Thats just what the way I want to spend my free time, mowing an acre or more of grass !! I think they call it progress!!

My 2 cents

[Rost]

Lab4me-

Fine then. Call your congressman. See if you can get that law changed.

Your son can hunt the ditches anytime he wants. But I have to tell you, although you can hunt the ditch, they are not designed for wildlife. The ditch is specifically designed to make the road a safer place. Yeah, native grass?? That is what our highway engineers want-- All of our ditches to be perfect habitat for wild animals . Probably not. In fact, the state plants a lot of native grass on public hunting land. This is the land that the state prefers to accomodate wildlife.

As far as the farmer that said he doesn't want people hunting near his land? He was wrong. The bales that are rotting in the ditch? Call the local HWY dept and let them know. The farmers must have them out of the right-of-way with in a certain amount of time.

One last thing, I will be in the Twin Cities this weekend and I plan on checking to see how many road ditches are mowed in your area because I would like to hunt them when I come up next fall. I heard 35W has a few birds nesting there.

We all have opinions though, and you have a right to voice yours.

[duckbuster]

Rost, What law are you talking about? I don't recall mentioning a mowing the ditch law. I'm asking why I can't train in a field before the date mentioned but the ditches can be cut.

One thing you should do though when you do your research on the ditches in MN on your next trip. To have your research be acceptable you will need to go to the ditches west & southwest 50-75 miles of the metro.

The state usually would mow the 5-10 ft off the shoulder but the ditches are another thing.

GOOD LUCK with your research.

[Rost]

DB-

I was not responding to your original question. I was responding to lab4me in regards to mowing ditches in July.

He seems to think the practice should be outlawed entirely.

Now, in regards to why you can't train your dog in the ditch while the farmer can mow it, I feel you have a great point-and a legit question. I have no problems with a question like that.

BTW- I know some guys from the Waconia area. Do you know anyone that hunts the duck opener in the Ivanhoe, MN area? Chad, Smitty, Browny, Scott P, and Kelly P.? Sorry I don't know last names.