Leader ?

[river rat316]

I have a ? for you Muskie experts,

It seems like you all like steel leaders, in what situations does a steel leader out perform a floro leader? I used 50 pound mono doubled up as a leader this last weekend and landed 2 Northerns and one 45" Muskie with the same leader and they never put a nick in it, was I lucky or is this a good leader? it was tied with a reverse albright knot, and the knot and the leader came through 3 fish unscathed, the down side to all this is after landing that 45" ski I can not wait till Muskie opener and I can see this getting very expensive!

[The Grebe]

316...I'm going to spin off of your post....with line like Power Pro, why would you need a leader anyways?

You can't cut it with a knife, or a nail clippers for the most part, I went and bought the reccommended Fiskars scissors for that job.

I know they are sharp, having been opened up enough times over the years, but are the triangular essox teeth sharp enough to cut that weird Power Pro line?

I don't suppose a person would want to find that out with a 40 pound fish on the end of the line..."Yup, they can cut it!" Any input on this?

[WMRP Member]

My advise would be to always use a leader when fishing for skies. Why even risk it? Not only could lose the fish of a lifetime, but you could also lose the bait that hooked that fish of a lifetime, and then possibly kill that fish of a lifetime because it has a bait stuck in its mouth. Why would you not want to use one? To save a couple dollars?

[MuskyMark]

I agree with WMRP on this one. I've never fished leaderless for muskies or pike. Regardless of what type of braided line you use. Had too many break offs incidentally hooking muskies and pike while bass fishing. And I've seen a muskie go right through a 50 lb test flouro leader before too. It's not even the teeth that always do it. The sharp edge of the gill plate on muskies and pike will do the trick. Once they roll up on the line, or start jumping with some good head-shakes, they can saw through most fishing lines... including Power Pro, Stealth, Tuf-Line, etc.

With that being said, even though I saw a fish break off on a Flourocarbon leader, I use a lot of them nowadays (80-100#), along with the standard Titanium, 7-strand, and piano-wire leaders. The mono and flouro leaders have low visibility in the water, but are still tough enough to protect against the teeth and gill-plates. Better safe than sorry.

Mark

[RK]

Hiya,

Before fluorocarbon became widely available for freshwater guys, a lot of muskie anglers used hard mono leaders, especially on Lake St. Clair where they do a lot of shortline trolling at high speeds. The mono had a little bit of stretch to soak up some of the shock of the hit. Hard mono is different than regular mono though - it's specifically meant for leaders, so it's very stiff and very abrasion resistant. Double leader is a good idea w/lighter mono. When I cast with mono I usually tie a Bimini twist (it's not as hard as it looks) to double up the end line. A little insurance with a fish that rolls.

To answer your question specifically though - I still use steel leaders (almost always singlestrand. Only exception is quick strike rigs...) more often than not, though I am using fluoro more and more as I gain confidence in it and as I decide what I like it for and what I don't. I've been using fluoro between #70 and #130. I definitely use singlestrand wire any time I'm going to be crashing rocks though, like fall trolling in Canada, for example.

Grebe - absolutely need a leader, even with a superline. Teeth can cut line I suppose, but those aside, feel the gill plates on a muskie sometime. They can razor through line like you can't believe. I had a fish cut me off last summer on Mille Lacs. Fish rolled in the line then did a power run and cut #100 superline like it was thread. First fish I've had cut me off since 1991. I'm still sick about it. The other thing with no leaders is, when a fish is thrashing, they can get the line around the hooks, especially with jerkbaits or cranks. Get the line caught under a barb and it can cut in a hurry. That can still happen with a leader, but a lot less likely. Leaders take the beating from contacting rocks, bottom, rushes, etc. too.

Cheers,

RK

[The Grebe]

WMRP....Hey, I'm asking a question here? I have no experience with the new types of lines and the potential of those lines, I'm trying to learn something, I'd appreciate your not trying to put a different spin on it! Thank you very much!

You don't buy a $6.00 pair of scissors to cut the line with and then try to save a "couple of dollars" on a leader, cheez! Give it a rest.

[The Grebe]

RK... Thank you very much, good info, just what I was looking for!

I have only caught a couple of accidental Muskies in my life, but a couple of summers ago, my son caught a biggie out of Minnetonka on a bass spinner bait...it towed the boat around and we even had the people on the pleasure launch watching the action.

We landed the fish, took some pics and let it go, it was pretty cool! I've never shared the boat with a fish that size before!

Since then,little by little I have been acquiring some Muskie gear and this summer we plan to make some regular outtings just for Muskie fishing...I want to be prepared.

[Cooter]

The vast majority of water I fish are stained so I've never really given flouros much of a thought. Still, even in clear water I can't believe a wire leader is gonna spook too many fish - take a look at some lures muskies eat, they aren't much more than chunks of wood with hooks in em. Also, the fish are probably gonna be keying in on the lure anyway, not your leader. Maybe they are a plus on neutral, following fish? I'll stick with steel leaders for now - too many variables and things that can go wrong with a 30lb fish on the end of your line. Mono and flouros get cut, steel doesn't. Just my tenth of a cent worth.

[Cooter]

Just noticed on my avatar it looks like I got a big ol pair of buck teeth

[AWH]

I haven't used fluoro leaders before. But I plan on making some this year. I think most people believe that the main purpose of fluoro or mono leaders is the visibility of the leader. But like was already stated, muskies likely are not very leader shy. The main advantages of a fluoro leader will be the action that you can get with certain baits. They're also better for trolling purposes (from what I've heard).

Aaron

[markkstanley]

Fluoro doesn't kink ever so no weak spots. My main problem with wire leaders is the crimps can weaken them at the crimp. I've had a few name brands come apart. Haven't been bit off with Fluoro yet. I use 80 or 100lb. Not an issue of visibility but it has to be a plus if fish can't see it.

[WMRP Member]

Grebe

Sorry man. I wasn't trying to insult you at all. Just asked a question as to why you would not want to use one is all and you did not mention that you spent $6 on a pair of scissors. A lot of guys would choose not to use one just to save a couple of bucks. Glad to hear your not one of them. Relax will you? And good luck to you on the water.

[The Grebe]

WMRP...Check out the second paragraph about the Fiskars...now we can both let it go.

[WMRP Member]

I looked again and don't see the $6 part. But I agree...let it go. Good luck on the water. And relax will you? You will have plenty to get all worked up about once you start chasing these things out there on the water. You'll see.

[jackfish]

I just posted this same reply on another message. Try a titanium leader. Yes they cost a little more but they last and they work. Titanium leaders are thin, light, won't kink, they cut weed, tough, everything you need. They are on of those, you get what you paid for deals. By good titanium leaders and they will last a long time.

Jackfish

[markkstanley]

There have been reported problems with crimps coming apart on the titanium. I lost one lure when the leader came apart while casting and don't use them. Just an FYI. If going this route pay the extra $$$ to buy the top of the line.

[Long Gray Line]

For all you using a heavy floro leader, what kinds of knots are you using to tie to swivel and lure? With a steel leader and superline, I've never had a palomar let go, but the palomar isn't the knot for mono.

[AWH]

With fluoro leaders, I've been told to go with a uni knot.

As far as the titanium leader, I have never used one. But I would caution against one thing. Although the titanium leader might last a lot longer, still be aware of the snaps that you use. They do wear out or get weak. If titanium leaders last as long as some say, you may have to replace your snap before the leader goes bad. You don't want to lose that fish of a lifetime because of any weak links you might have!

Aaron

[The Grebe]

RK...Your advice was good and I'm glad I took it! Last night the exact thing you spoke of happened.

We were out Muskie fishing on Minnetonka, I was using a Suicks and on a couple of occassions, the leader I was using, did indeed get lodged behind the barb on the hook and I'm sure that had I not had a leader on, even a heavier line then what I was using, could have been easily cut.

I thought of your advice right away and thought I'd let you know that I took it! Thanks.

Now here is another question....I noticed last night that the PowerPro line I was using, would get kind of light in spots after I would get a backlash, ( And I got a few!) how much can this kind of line take before it starts to weaken? Is it as durable as braided line?