Help, Pup stopped retrieving!!!

[Blackduck]

I have a yellow male that is 8 months old. I got him at 12 weeks in Nov. As soon as I got him home I thought I had a natural. I would come home from duck hunting and he retrieved everything from Teal to Mallards in the yard. I worked him with dummies, and when we were done with that he would find his tennis balls and literally drop them at my feet wanting to keep going. About a month ago he just stopped all retrieving. Some days he will retrieve a couple dummies and then just be done, but most of the time he won't make a single retrieve. I will then break out the tennis ball to play and he will get excited, but still not retrieve. He will run out to the dummie/ball and run right by it, or stop short and then either come back, or go inspect something else. I have also noted a major change in him. When I let him out everything is fine, he acts very sure of himself, but when I get out the dummies he becomes very timmed. I have not pushed the issue, the most I've done is get him to wrestle and play around with me and the dummy/ball. I can get him very excited about it and trying to grab it, then I toss it and that's it. Should I be forcing the issue more. I just don't want to wreck him. I have never hit him, and don't think anyone in the neighborhood has. We have kids in the area, and recently he has been playing a lot with them, but I don't think this is a problem because whenever he and the kids are out he whines at my side until I tell him he can go. He has never came back injured, or with a different attitude. I don't think he would be begging to go back if they treated him bad. He's done with his teeth also.

Thanks much!!!!

[leechlake]

I was just talking about this exact issue with a buddy of mine. I you have a Wolters book he describes in great detail dogs behaviors and development at different ages (he breaks it into days). Per Wolters, dogs go through phases, "this attitude shows up like clockwork between the 16th-17th weeks. It will happen again at about eight months, and you may see it again when he's just under two. Don't let it fool you, he's just showing his independence..."

What he suggests is shortening training, to as little as 3 minutes but to make sure in that short time the dog does everything right! After about a week of this the dog will see you are still the boss and he should go back to how he was. The above is assuming there isn't any other "weird" things medically going on, I'd bet your in a phase.

[Ray Esboldt]

My dog did it and got over it. This was about a month ago (she's almost 8 months now). I went into a panic.

What I did was stop playing fetch altogether with her for about 2 weeks. Instead we just did sit, stay, come, heel work. I also introduced her to sitting on top of the picnic table and forcing her to hold every object from her dummies to a wet shirt. I have no idea if either approaches helped her work through her reluctance to retrieve, but she's fine now. If she's really in the mood she'll retrieve for an hour. If she's not in the mood, she'll usually go get it anyways.

[Jackpine Rob]

I banished the pup to the outdoor kennel, allowing him out only for our brief "training" walks on leash. Sit, stay, come, heel. Then back to the kennel with fresh food and water. No talking, no playing. The dummy was introduced on the 2nd or 3rd day - but although I carried it and made sure he saw it - I never let him have it.

About day 4, in rigidly controlled conditions, the dummy was tossed, he retrieved, and we repeated just a couple of times - I chattered, praised, and petted when he brought it back.

Then back to kennel.

Took about a week, and things went back to normal.

[LABS4ME]

There are few "naturals" left that need no training in regards to retrieving. Most dogs benefit greatly from a full force fetch (aka: conditioned retrieve), to make "fetching" (retrieving) a command just as Sit and stay are commands. With that said, if you do not know how to "force" a dog, DON'T! or leave it to a pro... but minimally you can begin teaching "fetch" and "hold" as commands. As Ray stated do it on a picnic table and not actually throwing a dummy. Teach them to open their mouth and take the object on the command "fetch", and to "hold" it as a command, by light taps under the chin. They are not to release the dummy or object until commanded to "give" or "drop". Do this for a couple weeks until they understand and show a willingness to do all three commands. Then slowly add in some actual retrieving, but still continue daily training on all three commands. This should help you to solidify his retrieving skills.

In the past he was retrieving because "he" wanted to, not because you wanted him to... Now he is expressing his dominance by not doing what you want, but rather what "he" wants to do. Think of it this way, a little kid loves mowing the lawn beause it's fun to run a mower at first and make MA & PA happy, then come along 12 or 13 years of age they wouldn't even think of mowing the lawn unless ordered to do so.... it's the same as the retrieve. Some of the "fun" has worn off, would he out grow it without training? Maybe, maybe not. Why risk it... By teachinging him these commands you also are laying the ground work for bringing back all retrieved game to hand, as opposed to dropping it. Hope this helps...

Good Luck!

Ken

[Ray Esboldt]

I did forget to mention that Labs4Me was the one who helped me work through my situation. In fact, I'll give him most of the credit on solving every difficult situation thus far. The dude should write a book.

[Blackduck]

Thanks All! And thanks LABS4ME. I have never Force Fetched a dog, but have a lot of info, and know people who have successfully who can help. I have decided to try slowly with the dog on a table working on fetch to grab, hold, and give. I will then move on from there.

This has me stumped because he still listens very well, but just has a problem with the retrieving. Shouldn't he be refusing to kennel and come also????

What I have been doing the last 2 weeks is letting him out, letting him do his thing, then getting him excited about the dummy and trying to get him to retrieve it. When he did make the retrieve I would praise him at an elevated level, when he refused I would emediately tell him to kennel, and he would kennel up and I would walk away without saying or doing anything else. (he is an outside at all times dog) This morning when I came home from work I opened his kennel door with a tennis ball in my hand that I had bounced on the floor a few times before I let him out. He wanted it bad. I had him sit at heel and tossed it about 5 yards. Gave him a fetch and he was out and back at heel in a flash. I did this about 5 more times making him go out a little further each time. After that I grabbed a dummy and did the same. About 5 good retrieves and a bunch of tummy rubs and I quit. What is going on??? I don't understand why all of the sudden he is back? Maybe tomorrow he won't retrieve at all. Either way, I am just keeping you posted, and will still work on the table work.

Thanks again guys.

[BLACKJACK]

You always want to stop throwing dummies/balls/etc BEFORE the dog wants to stop, it keeps that retrieving desire up. On a hot day, you want to do less, or make sure you're doing some water work.

You mentioned kids and tennis balls in your first post - any chance that the kids sat and threw and threw until he got tired of it? That would teach him that he doesn't have to bring it back and it took away his desire.

Sounds like you're on the right track if hes starting to bring it back, just do a few and make him want more when you put the dummy away.

One more thought, throw a few in some long grass, make it challenging for him. Go to a different area, make it something new, make it a challenge. My eight year old lab doesn't have much desire anymore for dummies on the lawn, its too easy, but if I take her to a field and throw the dummy in some grass and brush, shes off like a shot.

Good luck.

[Blackduck]

On Friday Morning he didn't retrieve at all! I put him back in his kennel. Friday evening I put him on a table. I would give the fetch command and put the dummy in his mouth. Every time I had to grab his upper jaw with my left hand, roll his lip over his teeth a little to get him to open up. Once he had the dummy in his mouth I kept repeating the hold command. I would then give the "give" command. After about 5 times he would hold and give really well. I still had to force the dummy into is mouth though. We had a family get-together at our house on Saturday and he was out with 5-6 kids most of the afternoon. They had the tennis balls out and he retrieved that ball all afternoon long. On Sunday when everyone was gone he retrieved the dummy very well, and I did notice that he looked a little sore (from Saturday), so I just had him do a half dozen short retrieves. I then did some more table work, and it was more of the same. He held and gave well, but I had to put the dummy in his mouth. Is there something else I can do to get him to grab it, or is this where I need to know about "force fetching"? Or will he get it after much repeating?

Thanks again guys!

[Ray Esboldt]

Blackduck,

Just keep repeating what you're doing. The dog will eventually submit to your desires. It probably took mine about a week of forcing it on her before she would agree to grab it.

Take this advice for what it's worth based on my recent experience, I am not a dog expert. Don't let kids play fetch with your dog. I let up on my rules for the kids playing with dog recently and she has become very sloppy when training. The kids play unstructured fetch with her. As in, bringing the item half way back is OK, tug-of-war is OK, stuff like that. Those aren't OK in my book. So, as of Sunday, my dog does not play with any of the neighbor kids period, and her play with my kids is limited to what I approve.

I know, I'm a grump. But, I need a hunting dog not a neighborhood mascot.

[Blackduck]

Thanks everyone!! I have decided to start back at the begining with OB training, then Colar Conditioning, then probably Force Fetch. I am not totally set on the FF, but will pay close attention to the dog while redoing his obediance, and see how the Colar Conditioning goes. I have been reading a ton of material on training, and even though this is my second dog, and my first dog did just fine with retrieving, I have a lot to learn, and have a long way to go with this dog. I have my mind set on the OB and CC, and won't move on until he is near perfect in OB, then etc...