Sprigner rage?

[Esoxmn]

Does anyone know anything about this? Is it real?

[LABS4ME]

I know zero about it, other than it is real and you do not want a dog with it... There are others on this board who know spaniels well and they can fill you in a little more.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Esoxmn]

Thanks, I found a few articals about it.

[Big Brown]

esox,

While I am not sure if our hound had springer rage, I did have a very aggressive female that was brought into my house when I got married. We tried everything but after many trips to the vet for my lab and a couple of nips at us she now resides on a farm in WI.

We talked with our Vet and even consulted a doggie headshrink but in the end we determined that she was not meant for the suburbs and a similar sized female to compete with. We were told that alot of her aggression was due to anxiety as a result of the many changes in her life and our very aggressive lab. They also warned that we should never use a heavy hand with her as this just compounds the problem.

I wish you well as giving up our girl was a very difficult time for us.

Big Brown

[Hockey Guy]

I believe Springer Rage is a term for when you wake them out of a dead sleep to abruptly. Right? If so, I know it is real. I was watching my brothers Springer one weekend. While I was lying on the couch, I reached down to pet his dog that was sleeping on the floor beside the couch. He completely freaked out! He actually bit a hole through my hand where his canine teeth come together and started shaking his head. After I yelled (actually screamed like a girl), he stopped and looked at me with his head down. He really looked sorry and followed me all over the house as I was looking for bandages. I honestly don’t know if he was even awake when it happened but he definitely felt bad afterward. Keep in mind this is the nicest, gentlest dog I have ever been around (and I have had four labs). He is very gentle with kids and even avoids conflicts with other dogs. If I owned a Springer I would never touch it to wake it up.

The sports reporter, Mike Max, was bitten in the face by his Springer because he rolled over against it in bed. I heard him talking about it on WCCO radio. I think they are one of the best family dogs to have but I would be careful.

[gspman]

The rage stories I've read are much worse than that and the dog wasn't asleep. Do a google search on "springer rage". This was also written up in GunDog Magazine several years ago.

[setterguy]

I don't know anything about it, but I do have a funny story.

My buddy had a springer when we were growing up and at times it was rather aggressive. When we were about 16 his parents were gone for the weekend, my buddy got done with his dinner and left a plate on the counter that had a pork-chop bone on it. My buddy comes up the stairs and sees the dog laying by the back door eating the bone. He tries to reach in and grab it from her, he almost lost a few fingers. He looks to his right and sees the local city newspaper laying on the desk, rolled up with the rubber band. He grabs the paper, she stands up, almost as a challenge. He get so scared that he just threw the paper at her. As the thing was in the air she dropped the pork chop and CATCHES the paper in her mouth and then tosses it to the side, almost saying "Come on, is that all you got?" He turned around and ran out of the house....I would have paid to see that.

[2 DA GILLS]

My parents have a springer and he is the exact same way when he has something that he does not want to give up. It can be a bag of trash, dead fish, pheasant, duck. It has made him worthless as a hunting dog. There are probably ways to break this aggression, but he is too old to even bother anymore. He is a very nice dog, but try to take a dead fish away from him and you might lose some fingers. He turns nasty.

[Mille Lacs Guy]

I have been involved in training, field trailing and very familiar with Field Bred English Springer Spaniels and I have never heard anything about Springer rage.

I have never seen or heard first hand information of a springer exibiting the behavior indicated above. I have 3 springers and they have never even growled at me or anyone else or bit them.

One thing I will say is pay very special attention to the breeding you are getting. There are way too many people out there breeding dogs that shouldn't be.

Also, there is a very distinct difference between a field bred english springer spaniel and a bench or show english springer spaniel. AKC reckogzines all english springers they same but they are not. In my opinion, all of the hunting ability and temperment have been bred out of the show dogs. I have heard second hand that there are a lot of issues in show springers with temperment. Maybe this is related to the rage people are referring to.

I have labs and field bred springers and in my opinion there is no better companion than these animals. I can't imagine any of the dogs I've seen getting rage.

[Esoxmn]

I have a Field bred English Springer. She is a very friendly and has been great with my 3 yr old son, untill this winter. They can be playing chaseing each other around, and she will walk away with her tail down, and growl athim if he comes twards her. I made sure he 's not doing something to hurt her and he's not. The other day my wife and son were walking in the house and she growled at them. She is a litle over 6 , and like i say has never done this before.

[Long Gray Line]

Had a springer we had to get rid of when it started going after my 3 yr old daughter, nobody else, just my daughter. The dog absolutely got vicious with her, ran up and bit her when she was swinging one day, did it again when she was just standing in the living room. Wife took the dog to the pound before another permanent solution took place. Had no idea this was more wide spread, just thought I had a psycho.

[LABS4ME]

Esoxmn... I don't know if Springers are subject to hip, elbow or other degenerative joint diseases, but a gentleman I know had a lab turn on his kid whenever they played to rough/long. Never did this in the 1st 6 years of his life and all of a sudden one day got kind of stand-offish and the next time growling and the next time sulking away growling until finally he took a snap at the kid. He brought him into the vet and he had a pretty good case of hip displaysia. Never showed any outward clinical signs but the x-rays confirmed it. I think he just reached the threshold of his pain tolerance and then showed he wanted to be done. Something to investigate.

I fully support the statement of Mille Lacs Guy that many of todays breeding of a lot of field dogs has been bastardized in regards to "original" breed standards of temperment. All aspects of breeding should be taken into cosideration incl. temperment to preserve our breeds... but unfortunatley money and ego's dictate a lot of today's breedings. Most breedings are done solely based on pedigree without regard to what the fianl outcome of the pups will be. I think any of the true "imports" of springers would be without these traits, but they are probably harder to come by. Springers were over bred and bred without discretion through the 70's and early 80's. Those who love the breed are working hard to bring them back. I still remember fondly the stories my Grandpa had about all his spaniels. Someday I too would love to watch my own spaniel do it's merry quartering in front of me in the field. Investigate ALL litters before putting your deposit down on a pup.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Crossin' Eyes]

Interesting reading. I have 2 English Springers currently. One 5 yrs and the other 8 years. Both neutered males. Previously my father and I have raised and hunted with 2 other female Springers that have now both passed on. We have never experienced anything of the above mentioned behavior. All our dogs have been wonderful family and house dogs and have always been great with kids.

My 3 year old son hangs all over my 2 current dogs and I've never heard a growl.

Maybe I'm just lucky, who knows. but I've never heard of "Springer Rage".

Mike

[sweept]

Wow I have never heard of this before, I have had 3 springers and all have been wonderful pets and excellent hunters. All 3 have come from different breeders.

[springerspeed]

Springer rage is real. I would consider springer rage to be if the dog bite without being provoked or teased. If the dog just all of a sudden turned and bite. Not alot is known about how they get that way. Some times it is caused by a bad experience that they never recover from. Other cases have been the dog was fine for years then all of a sudden, wham the dog goes bonkers.

You seem to hear more about it with show bred springers. That is not to say it doesn't exist in the field bred springers.

This is just what I know about it. For what it is worth.

[Esoxmn]

I talked to two different vetrinarians and a breeder. This is not a springer trait, it can happen in any dog. It looks like what i am dealing with is dominance agression. A few nights ago she snapped at my son and almost bit him in the face. They all said i could put her on meds, that may or may not help. Training could also help, but once they have gone as far as snapping or biteing there is basically no going back. She could never be trusted again. I feel if i try to give her away, i am just passing on the problem. With two children the risks are just to high. so i looks like i will have to put her down. If your dog ever shows any agression, talk to a vet as soon as possible, hopefully it can be strightened out if you catch it right away. Dont make the same mistake i did and wait till its too late.

[2 DA GILLS]

esoxmn

It is a tough decision to make. I can say that I agree that you do not have a choice. With 2 young kids, I would feel the same way. Safety of your children must always come first. I feel for you in this situation.