Communication on water

[Feldy]

For a couple of years now my buddy and I have been trying to find a way to talk to each other in Canada. The marine radios seem to be terrible. Any suggestions?

[fishin789]

When my father in-law was alive we both had cb radios in our boats. when we would go up to lake vermilion for a week we could fish different areas and then talk to each other. now all you need is a couple of cell phones.

[Feldy]

Now is a cb the same general thing as a marine radio? Why don't these things work on the water over any distance. No cell phone will work in Ontario. Please anyone with some similar experiences.

[kpj5br]

Marine VHF radios will work perfectly. The trick is in the antennas. As long as both boats have good, fiberglass at least 8 ft. antennas, your talk is crystal clear over many miles of open water.

The second factor is wattage, but it's not even a close second, really any radio even 1w transceiver is fine if the antennas are good.

You can do this two ways:

1) with the "console" or permanent style marine radio "hard wired" into boat power and the antenna.

2) you can also use the handheld type, using the external antenna jack to plug in a large antenna mounted on your gunwhale.

The other option is the FRS and/or GMRS style radios. These are the handheld things you can get at any sports store. The new high-watt models have the capability for clear talk up to 5 miles in perfect conditions.

The great thing about Marine VHF is it is the standard on water (fresh and salt). In the US, the coast guard monitors channel 16 VHF 24 hours/day in case you get into trouble. In Canada it's something similar but I forget the channel.

As an example, I use my marine VHF extensively on Lake Pepin. I can be at Red Wing, and have clear communications down to Lake City (roughly 20 miles away).

Also, when I "radio check" my boat at home, in Burnsville, I can always pick up the coast guard station in St. Paul (again, about 20 miles away) crystal clear 2-way traffic.

Cannot stress enough this all boils down to the antenna...

[chunkytrout]

KPJ is right on the money. Your VHF rig is only as good as your antenna set-up. Don't bother with CB anymore. There's so much skip and garbage on those frequencies. If you can, bring your boat to a good radio shop and have them set you up and balance your rig.

Hey Feldy, welcome to FM!

[metrojoe]

I think CBs and Marine radios work pretty much the same except for the frequency band. Hamm and CB anttennas need a good ground to work properly. Even a simple AM radio has difficulty out in the boat because there isn't any real ground for the attenna when your on the water. Make sure your using a quality "no ground plane" attenna made specifically for boats. As mentioned above, even a "Fisher Price" radio can kick some A.. as long as you use a quality anttenna.

[Kaz]

I guess I had to wade in in this one.. Being a Ham Operator for over 30 years I think I have been around the block on Antennas and Two-way Radios. Marine bands are FM and are not subject to the noise interference that AM or CB is affected by. Skip is almost nonexistence except in te summer when certain weather conditions happen to cause ducting. Usually when that happens you may hear stations up to 150/200 miles away, but it's just other marine stations on the same frequency. Now for power out, the more the better. 1 watt will only travel so far even with the best of antennas. Most radios are good, but some are better. Not necessarly the more expensive one's either. Standard and Icom are the best one in my estimation. Now Antennas.. The 8' is not always the best for all applications. True the 8'er flattens out the signal, but in rough water that makes the pattern lift off the horizon and go right over the receiving station, you may not really get out as far as you think you should or would in calmer conditions. Also if you have a Aluminum boat the boat acts as a ground plane. It even electrically connects to the water for addional grounding. An 18" whip on a aluminum boat will supprise you as to the range you get. 8'ers may be in the way most of the time when fishing and don't bend very well. They are also tunes to the mid band of Marine, which include the weather at 162.500 Mhz. Most of your transmissons are around 156.000/157.000. You can't trim, or tune an 8'er either!! I prefer to take a page out of the 2 meter Hambook and go with a tuned 5/8 wave 46" base loaded stainless steel whip antenna that can be tuned to a 1:1 SWR where you transmit most of the time. I don't worry about the weather, because they broadcast 500 watts on usually 300' towers and you'll hear them anyhow. I like a tuned antenna to get all of the watts off the end of the antenna. If you do not have a tuned antenna, you will reflect as much as 40% of the power back into the radio and the Radio will automaticly reduce the power out so and not to damage the final output transisters in the radio.. So folks, if you want the radio to send the full 25 watts out and receive the weak signals, you need a tuned antenna for best results. Not always is the 8' glass antenna the best. Each installation needs to be looked at to see what will be the best in your specific application.. Kaz WA0NIR

[chunkytrout]

Great Post Kaz! Happy DXing

[styx]

Is a handheld with or without and external antenae a good option also. I fish lake of the woods and the Rainy river occasionally. I usually don't stray out too far, I just need a way to communicate in case of emergencies when the cell phone does not work. What range can I expect with a handheld? Any good suggestions on a particular brand?

[Kaz]

TNX Chunky and 73's, you must be a Ham too. Ever get on N0GEF's network up there. I think it's the 147.240 machine up Ely. I have worked and know Rick, K0XB on the lake. Although I never know which repeater I'm on because Greg has the whole area covered from Duluth to the Range, and beyond. I do go on the echolink sometimes, or I can hit Duluth on 444.300 from my place in Sturgeon Lk, with a small beam of course...

Styx: Actually a Cellphone will work from most places up there. I have a place at Wheelers and I got three bars out past Pine and also in Zipple. I have Verizon which seems to work the best up there. But a Marine radio is fun to listen to when you are on the water. Most of the Resorts monitor their own specfic channels. I usually scan them to see what's going on.. A hand held will pick up the resorts out a good 10 to 15 miles. However if you have a FRS or GMRS radio, they work well too. I was in Zipple and talked to a fellow at Morris Point, loud and clear on channel 17/1. So If you want to talk just to your own group, like less than 5 miles away, then FRS or GMRS will do the job. If you want to hear the Resorts, or Guides in the open water, then get a Marine hand held or a Mounted 25 watter will be the best choice. Hope this helps....

[metrojoe]

Say Kaz, you ever come over to the dark side? say like 38 LSB. I usually don't shoot to much skip but I talk to alot of the locals.

[Kaz]

Joe: Well, 3.916 sometimes in the 7:30 to 8:00 mornings. Otherwise mostly MidCars 7.258 or 20 meters. I do hang on 442.925 mobile... Hamming will take a back seat come fishing though. I do mix HF and Ice Fishing a little...