lab training

[poutpro]

I have gotten a black lab pup and have been training it the basic commands. Sit, stay, lay down, and some house training things. I was wondering how everyone goes about teaching them to retreive ducks. He already has a naturaly desire to retreive things, but i have only tried bringing him out one time. He really didnt know what he was supposed to do. I know too many people expect their dogs to do way too much and get frustrated when they dont do what they want and think that there is just no hope for the dog when really it is more a poor trainer than a poor dog. I was debating over a shock collar but have heard opposing sides on using them with labs. Some say that they are just too stuborn for them while others say they work wonders. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Mr. B]

E-collars do have their place, but they are not the magic answer to dog training. If you think of them as a long leash or just a reminder for the dog things will go better.

Before you can use the e-collar the dog has to understand the command. If the dog does not know what you want it to do then no matter how many times you give it a correction it still will not understand. You will just end up with a very confused dog.

I would love to be able to give you advice on how to get them to retrieve ducks but Maggie just did it. My problem is I can not get her to stay still or quiet in the blind. If any one has tips on that it would be a great help.

[poutpro]

Rocko shows interest in downed birds, but doesn't exactly know that he is to bring them back. He will go out and play with them a little bit but wont bring them back. He will retreive any toys thrown for him, but he thinks it is just for playful reasons that he is doing it. Hopefully he will soon get the idea that thats what he is supposed to do with down birds. I plan to try and bring him pheasant hunting next season just to get him out running around and get his nose working. Part of my dogs problem is that I am at school a lot and do not get enough time in with him.

[LABS4ME]

Poutpro... this could be a VERY LONG post... so let's try to narrow it down 1st.

1. How old is your dog?

2. What have you done so far with your training. Being in school and training a dog takes committment but it can be done. Several short sessions a day are better than one long one anyways, and a lot of the basics can be taught indoors. Do not fall into the trap of saying "I'm in school so I don't expect much out of the dog". It isn't fair to either of you.

3. the shock collar isn't even an option, yet, so let's take that out of the equation. As Mr B stated they are used to correct and reinforce what they have already been taught.

4. Have you read any books, watched any videos, or joined a training group? This is where a lot of lessons for both you and your dog will be learned.

I will be happy to try and answer a lot of your questions, as I'm sure many of our members will... we just need more info on your particular dog. A lot of it will come down to exposing yourself and your pup to different training regimens, and then sticking to them. Let's see if we can help...

Good Luck!

Ken

[poutpro]

My dog will be 1 yr old in May. He is a male pure bread - dont know his backgroudn

I have trained him basic commands( sit, stay, lay down, "no", house training )

I have watched very limited shows and training, have read no books, and have joined no training groups - a lot because i dont know which ones are good and which ones are just out there to make money for the author

My dad also is home with him when I am at school. I am at school and away form home from Sunday night to Thursday afternoon every week. I feel that my dad being there helps and hurts at the same time. He has become very obedient to him, but when i come home, he sees me as a time to play and is excited to se me when i get home.

anything else you want to know just ask

thanks for the help!!!!

[jgeatz]

I think the most important and the first step would be obdiance, make sure he listens to you when you give him a command. The second is eye contact,when you talk or give him a command he needs to be looking at you. Get these simple steps down then move on, it takes time and patience. I also agree that the shock collar is a good tool but should not be used untill dog has mastered each command.

[Benny]

I couldn't agree more, the three basics are a MUST and must be obeyed with out fault.

A dog that will sit and stay on command is way further ahead than the dog who was trained to retrieve before the three basics were ingrained in them.

My dog is just over a year old now, sent her to a pro trainer at 5 months.I had her pretty close to bing rock steady on sit,stay and come so they were able to spend more time on birds.

Even now though she needs the firm voice to get her to comply.So you have to always stay in control and the dog must know you are the boss.

Make the dog repeat the command if it doesn't do as you say.And don't let them get away with a so so atempt, they learn quick if you let them slouch.

Don't even atempt the E collar untill the dog knows those commands as well.The collar won't help if the dog doesn't understand the comand.

I recamend a trainer unless you have tons of patience and time to get the dog birdy and work with it every day for at least 15 minutes of training and some bonding/socializing.

Good Luck and enjoy the pup.

Benny

[LABS4ME]

O.K. Pout Pro,

It looks like you are working on your basic commands, that's good they are important, but I believe you want to know about getting your dog to retrieve.

I hope that he has good natural instincts, as it doesn't sound like you've done any real formal retriever training yet. If he doesn't take to this naturally, he may need to be force fetched and I wouldn't recommend this unless you have a fair amount of time to work with him and are comfortable with the regimen.

With that said go out and get a couple of the staple books of retriever training. Try either Water Dog or Gun Dog by Richard Wolters, The Smart Work series by Evan Graham or if you can still find it, Training Retrievers the Cotton Pershall Method. There are others but I believe they are more geared towards finishing a dog as opposed to alot of the basic stuff.

The retrieve should be taught as a command... usually the word "fetch" to go out and get the object, and "hold" to carry it in the mouth till commanded to "drop" or "give". This does not have to be done actually throwing retrieves, but rather on say, a picnic table or a front stoop. Sit your dog, tell him fetch and open his mouth and place his dummy in his mouth, tell him hold (do not let him drop the dummy) and finally drop to release it. Do this several times a day incresing the duration of hold. A little chin slap (light tap under the chin) to keep his head up and the dummy in his mouth until he understands he is not to release his dummy till told. Then start out with very short retrieves while on a check cord (so you can make sure he comes to heel once he picks up his dummy). Continue lengthening the retrieves and begin to work in some birds, frozen pigeons work well in the summer. Once he masters this begin to have people throw the birds while hidden behind some brush and into the water to simulate the duck retrieve... he'll start putting 2 and 2 together, always use your commands fetch, hold, drop and eventually begin to work in some gun shots so he associates that with retrieving.

That's it in nutshell, the books will go into more detail. I know you can also get a lot of these books on DVD now, so you can actually see the work being done... then you just have to emulate the trainer on the DVD.

Hope this helps getting you and your pup pointed in the right direction...

Good Luck!

Ken

[Benny]

Labs has given some great advice.I would also second the use of the DVD's.I have both the book "Game Dog "and the DVD series that goes with that same author.

The DVD is way better as Labs said you can actualy see how the excersise is set up and executed.

LAB'S-----I found that manual,video tape and some othere paper work for the Polaris.

benstackle at netzero dot net send me your number again.

Benny

[poutpro]

Hey thanks for the help. I need to tell you a little more about what i have done with Rocko. I have got him to retrieve balls and plastic dummies. I will throw them and tell him to stay and then fetch, and he does so. He will bring it back and drop when i say drop too. The problem comes when it is an actual duck. I tried using a dead duck that i had shot earlier in the morning this duck season and when i would throw it, he would go over to it, sniff it, and not know what to do? If it is anything that is real game, he doesnt know that he is supposed to bring it back to me. What do I do about this?

Thanks for all the tips and patience with me! I really appreciate it guys!!!

[LABS4ME]

Use those same techniques I outlined above but use frozen birds. You should still start out with a dummy and then move to birds... You still should teach and re-inforce the retrieve as a command and not rely on instincts.

Good Luck!

Ken

[poutpro]

I read a little bit in GUN DOG today. It gave some pretty good points on basic commands. I havent been doing hand signals with my dog, and I guess i should be doing that. I havent tried frozen birds with Rocko, but I imagine that he would do the same as a freshly killed bird that i throw out there for him. One more problem I neglected to bring up in previous posts. Sometimes after we are done working with a dummy, I will tell him to come and he will run circles in my and I wont be able to catch him. This is the only time he wont listen to COME. How do i deal with this?

[gundoglily]

As some of the other posts have stated, make sure you get all the basic stuff down before you start throwing other things in your training routine(ie: hand signals).

In reference to the dog running away from you with the bumper, when you start chasing after him(her) now it has become a game. Instead of chasing after the dog, walk away from him in the opposite direction. That will make him want to find you. Another technique would be to put a long check cord on the dog and reel him in using "come"or "here".

also remeber that this dog is not even a year old yet, so positive reenforcement will go a long way.

As to not picking up the bird, feathers are a different sensation in their mouth. Get some wings and wrap them on the bumper so he gets used to the feathers in his mouth.

Good luck!

[poutpro]

I have been working in hand signals with the basic commands sit, stay, come, and whoa. This is what was explained to do in a Gun Dog book that I read. I supposed this gets to dog used to obeying commands by sight and by hearing.

[jgeatz]

Yep, it really comes in handy when you are out in the duck blind on a windy day and your voice won't carry far. You know when you dog is getting it when he can't find the dummy,stops,looks back at you and waits for a signal. Just like sign language. After awhile he will just start picking up on more movements, Heck there has been days out in the blind where I haven't even had to give him a verbal command. That is when you can really start to enjoy it.

[poutpro]

that would be great if i will be able to get my dog to that point. It would be very pleasing to see your dog perform as you taught it.

[jgeatz]

You just have to remember, it doesn't happen overnight. My dog is nine now but really wasn't good till his fifth year out in the blind. Keep working with him as much as you can and you will be supprized just how good both of you can work together.

[koWALLEYEski]

My dog just had puppies. When do you think it is ok to start training with her again. She is only a year old.

[jgeatz]

As soon as she is healthy enough, get her checked out by a Vet. Ussually after they have had a litter of pups, females will be more receptive, more calm, thus improving their training. I would ussually wait till the pups are weaned off her thou. I takes alot out of a dog to care for those pups. It's good to get her away from them for a little time each day, so she can have a break. With the females I have had they really improved on their skills after that first litter.

[island guy]

Labs4me gave great advice. Training is a every day committment. Mines 3 1/2 and we still work every day. Be patient. I would not use a e-collar on such a young dog. Keep it fun but be firm. Several short sessions are better than long ones. Good luck!

[half2fish]

I have the same problem with my lab as you do. i am at school all day and my dad is at home with him. he gets to run around a lot but likes to leave the resort and it is difficult to find him sometimes. He has, come, sit, stay, down. all mastered. I bought a shock collar last weekend and have all ready noticed some changes. he is more hesitant to leave the property and he seems to listen much better. I dont know if the collar worked different because he is also half golden retriever but it did seem to work. no if i could only get him in the water.