ATTENTION SLEDHEAD

[gjk1970]

My brother installed one of those primer balls on a 1994 Polaris 600XLT triple. After installing it he tested the ball to make sure it did not leak. During the leak check he forgot just how much fuel he was pumping into the carbs and well long story short when we did get it running gas poured out of the exhaust. Not a little I mean like a half a gallon maybe. But anyways after that the sled has not been able to idle. We replaced the plugs after the gas stopped dumping out of the exhaust now cracking the throttle after it was warmed up feathering it the entire time it ran good at the crack, but after it idled down it died. Is there any way he might have blown something? I took the head off there is no scars in the jugs.All pistons seem to have the same amount of play. Sunday we are doing a compression test but I kinda doubt there is a problem in the pistons themselves. Oh yeah the left Spark plug is clean as new as the others show they have fired but now there is spark but is there a chance of not enough spark? Please advise.

[gjk1970]

Ok anybody have a clue on this problem???

[hanson]

I've been thinking about this one for a couple days now and I'm not sure. Its pretty darn hard to diagnose a tricky sled problem without being there and seeing & hearing what the sled is doing.

Couple thoughts-

- The compression test will make you feel better. Nothing makes me more sick than having a blown cylinder. I really don't think you would have blown a cylinder. Its possible but doesn't seam likely.

- That XLT has 3 Mikunis, right? Any chance one of them is not pumping fuel? You said the one spark plug was clean as new. Was it clean after the sled was running but the other two looked like they had been firing? Was it wet with fuel at all?

I know I can start and idle my cat on one cylinder. It idles rough but it'll idle. When you give it throttle at all, it'll be real doggy. I've never had a triple but I'd imagine the motor could run quite fine on 2 cylinders and then get real picky when you try to accelerate or maybe even idle down.

[gjk1970]

The spark plugs were brand new we just installed them and then after running the sled for a bit we pulled them and the left one was still new I do not recall any gas on it either..Hmmmm I see where you maybe right with the carb question there. Otherwise the sled would not idle just die we would have to feather the throttle to keep it running but if we cracked the throttle the sled seemed to have all the pwoer and did not hesitate one bit but as soon as she idled down she died. Guess I am going to have to make another trip down there and this time after the compression test focus on that carb.. Thanks for your input..I will keep you updated on our findings..

[sledhead]

First why did he feel the need to install a primer bulb. There would not be any need for one uless there is another underlying problem with the fuel system. If I remember correctly this is a single fuel pump for all three of the carbs. To me it sounds like the PTO carb is now not getting any fuel at all. Yes is its possible that you dis blow out the PTO crank seal. easy way to check is to spray carb cleaner or starting fluid down between the primary clutch and side of motor while the machine is running if that cyclinder come alive by doing this you pushed out the seal. you may be able to get it back in with out resealling the whole motor but for sure need a clutch puller. You may also have blown out the fuel pump by putting to much pressure to it. These only need about 8-10 psi pressure to run the pump. find out which cyclinder runs the impulse line. It will be a line attached to a fitting on the motor running to the fuel pump. Could be plugged or cracked. my bet it runs off the PTO (left) cyclinder. You already took off the head but does it have an oring gasket or a tin one. If it's tin you need a new one. not reusable. Hope this gets you some where. For there is a little snow on the ground.

sledhead

[gjk1970]

Thanks for your help. The reason he put a prime ball on it is because it was a hard starter and watching the see thru fuel line he thought it just was not moving much fuel. BUT I did do a compression test today and that was not a pretty site. Left 85 middle 98 right 98. Pulled the jugs off and the pistons were not pretty, to my amazement I could not believe the thing even would run. Pistons looked as if someone took them and dragged them behind there car down the road.. But the top of them were good and was probably the only reason we could get it to run with any compression what so ever. So Now we have a new set of pistons rings and bearings on order. The jugs all looked fine and smooth. So I am thinking it may have been one of those cold start punches that may have just wore her out over time. Just bought it before the end of last winter and drove it once.. But we will see what happens this weekend sfter I put the new ones in. I am also going to check the oil injection pump since I am this far into it..But again thanks for your help..

[sledhead]

Did you hone the cyclinders yet. You must get that part done. If there is scoring ubove the ports you should bore it. if the cyclinders are not nickacyl. If they are very light you should be ok. But if you can catch a finger nail on them and they are above the transfer ports she needs boring or all the time and money you put into it will be a waste. Take off the primer bulb get some new needle and seats and clean those carbs, might not hurt to replace the fuel pump. I have never known a sled to ever need a primer.

[gjk1970]

No I have not honed the jugs yet but I did not find anything in there flawed either. Ran fingernail around ports and did not catch anything, but will run a hone anyways just for safetys sake..Thanks..I really do not want this to be a waste of time or money. Yes the primer bulb hit the garbage the day the problem started.. As soon as I seen the fuel dumping out the exhause and he said he felt it lock up while trying to start it I had to get rid of the bulb.. I did buy a fuel pump rebuild kit so hopefully when this is all done his sled will last him for a long time..He should have just kept the V-Max I sold him..lol But I cannot talk I have a SRX 700 the V-Max 500 again..lol and an RXL650 and a Storm 800..Can't make up my mind which ones I like better but it is alot of sleds for one person living by himself to have..lol

[gjk1970]

Ok here we go again. I have just got done putting about 14 hours into this sled now, I have replaced the pistons rings and pins. The Jugs looked fine. Now without getting it warmed up to operating tempature to get a goos reading as the manual says to do since now it won't start. We did a compression test and read 90 95 95 across. Now I expect that to change to a higher reading when warmed up but also using a cheap tester too. But now we have fuel we have spark,once in awhile we will get a sputter or a fire off her but won't start. I put new plug wires on it after being shocked half to death..lol But is there a way or is it possible that the CDI box maybe junk? Or just because I have spark at the tips of the plugs is there a way that it might not be enough? This sled has really pushed me oever the top now and I am open to anybody's experience or suggestions. Any clue of what to look for next?

[arbuck]

Quote:

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Ok here we go again. I have just got done putting about 14 hours into this sled now, I have replaced the pistons rings and pins. The Jugs looked fine.

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I can't help you with your starting problem but I take this to mean that you did not hone the jugs. You need to hone them in order for the rings to seat properly even if they "looked fine".

Depending on how much you have pulled this over or ran it you may need to replace the rings again after honing the jugs. If indeed you did not hone them the first time.

Don't mean to rain on your parade

arbuck

[gjk1970]

Well we did not hone them but we did use a drill and scouring pad on them like the book suggested. Does this qualify as a replacement for honing? Plus the shop we bought the pistons and rings from said there was no need to hone since they thought the pistons were fine to begin with and were probably seating good enough to run with but we chose to replace them since we were that far into it already. Then after putting it back together we found out the plug wires were bad,(Shocked me).. But I am also sencing the CDI box maybe shot.. I have not tested the amount of spark we are getting but after looking thru the manuel more there appears a chance that the spark may not be strong enough...

[arbuck]

yep, it should, the reasoning behind it is to break the glaze on the cylinder walls so the rings can "seat". If the glaze is left the rings will just slide over the smooth surface on the walls and never break in. It is the same reason for turning brake rotors on your car. 1st to true them. 2nd to break the glaze so the brake pads don't squeel on the super smooth surface.

Didn't mean to scare ya

arbuck

Wish I could help ya with the starting prblem

[gjk1970]

It is good to be scared it never hurts to have someone else put there experience in with another. I mean heck I just found out tonight that when I rebuilt the fuel pump I missed two of the gaskets. That even may have something to do with this entire starting problem..

[EXTREME]

1970...I don't know if this has been answered or not, but did you run the sled this year before you put in the primer bulb? The reason I ask this is that if a carb is not clean it could smoke the cylinder in a few minutes or less. The idleing problem you encountered is a sure carb problem or low fuel problem. Even with this, the motor should run right now. With 90+ lbs of compression in each cylinder, it should run. I guess the only advise that I can give is make sure it is getting fuel. Whether that involves cleaning carbs or changing fuel filters. Not the best advice, but who knows....mechanics are like doctors. Tough to diagnose problems.

[gjk1970]

Well all the cylinders are getting fuel. Yes it did run earlier this year before I put the new pistons in but just would not idle. The old pistons were showing signs of scaring. Jugs were all smooth above the ports. We have 90+ compression across the board but not over a 100. I think we may have smoked the ignition box by turning it over without grounding the plugs. (dumb on our part)! But I am about to throw in the towel on this sled soon and just give my brother my RXL! I have rebuilt the fuel pump has fresh gas put new wires on it. New plugs were installed. Cleaned the carbs. We have spark from all wires, but is it enough. Every now and then we get a fire out of her but then we pull and pull and nothing. Evebn dried out the plugs and shot just a little starting fluid in the cylinders and still did not get a fire.I have rebuilt one other sled which was a Yamaha and that one still to this day is running good. This Polaris has just challenged me more then anything I have ever done. I do not want to QUIT on it but it is really starting to rack up a bill that makes a person stop and wonder is it worth putting anymore money into it? We are running out of options here on this sled. Guess after replacing the electric components on this sled if it does not run it will make a pretty yard ornament.

(RUNNING OUT OF OPTIONS)!

[Macgyver55]

One more thing to check.....you may have done it already.......with all the pumping on the primer bulb (before the rebuild) did you ever pull the case drain plugs to check and drain any fuel? If the crank case has raw fuel in it, it will not start. It will act as if it is flooded and wont clear out without draining (or LOTS and LOTS of pulling). Just a thought........

[LittleRanger]

If this is a polaris, this is common with them. Shut off the fule valve anytime you are not running the sled. I had fuel bubbling out of the exhaust pipe fittings many times on numerous polaris sleds..........GO SKI DOO!!!!!!!

[gjk1970]

MAC~

I would like to THANK YOU and EVERYONE else with this sled problem.

MAC was right pulled the plugs and the gas ran out. Plugged her back up pulled the cord and BOOM she fired right off..Thanks again with all the help. Still has a problem with idle but after the carbs are cleaned out I believe that problem will be resolved too. Thanks again..