Last weekend

[duckbill]

Well another year is coming to an end and the major northern flight never took place. I have shot more ducks this year than I have shot in probably 10 years so I can't complain to bad. Mostly because I probably hunted close to 25 days this season. I plan on spending the whole weekend on the water in hopes of getting some good shooting. I will be in Wright County where we had some divers last weekend but nothing to cheer about. I talked to a friend last night up in Squaw Lake, MN and he said the the bills haven't arrived there yet in numbers so there is no way we will see any big push before it closes. I wish we had a couple more weeks of hunting left. I would be a big supporter of opening duck season in MN the 2nd weekend in October and not so early. Where is everyone heading this weekend?

[Guest]

Who knows where we'll end up. I got a report last night of a lot of geese up between TRF and Bemidji (wont be any more specific than that) so maybe that may be an option.

Talked to someone in Winnipeg yesterday and same old story...TONS of birds, plenty of food and open water and no reason to leave.

Sounds like there will be a front comming through Friday and Saturday so that might push some birds down, but I doubt in big numbers. But then anything is better than seeing 1 flock every 2 hours like last weekend.

[LABS4ME]

I'm not sure we will see this "grand" push all waterfowlers have been waiting for. I think a lot of the birds have been filtering through over a very wide swath all fall. Two of my friends who are absolute die hard fowling fanatics (they hunt 4 states and 3 provinces) went up to southern Manitoba last weekend to find these birds and never set a decoy or fired a shot. Most of the water was froze up, the few open bodies of water held SOME birds but not in significant numbers. They talked to 2 CO's up there and called a friend who lives just outside Winnipeg... The CO's said that the estimates of birds left in their province were grossly OVER ESTIMATED. "Paper Birds" they called them. They hear the reports we get saying there are all these birds locked up in Canada, and they said it is not true. They said some birds remain in and around Winnipeg but the only way to hunt them would be to find fields they were using to feed. Those sentiments were agreed upon by their buddies in Winnipeg. They are not saying there are not birds left in Manitoba, just not the numbers everyone is expecting to give them a push down here.

Reports from Sask. were even worse. Some birds relating to the last of the open rivers, no real numbers... maybe could eek out a hunt if you find a decent pocket of birds... not worth the drive.

What is even more scary is the Dakota's never really reported fantastic waterfowling this season. If these birds are not North of them, and they didn't rear them locally, where are all these birds the USFWS is claiming we have?

The mallards we usually hunt in So. Dak. were no where near the numbers we have seen, maybe 25% of what we usually see... in fact diver hunting the bigger bodies of water saved the day. North Dakota that same weekend was pretty slow, for others I know... My friends that were in Manitoba last week are going to So. dak this weekend and next weekend, but calls to friends there still do not show the concentrations we've seen over the last 15 years. They said there are some birds in the central part of MN, Hutchinson, Litchfield etc. and some using the western portion out by Canby but overall more in pockets than using a general area.

As much as I'd rather be in a fowlin' blind than almost anywhere, I'll be happy to be perched in my tree in WI this weekend. I hope those that go out find the birds they are looking for, as usual scouting will be the key. If it's going to happen, I would expect this will be the weekend as it is going to get cold with North winds Sat through Tues.

I think next year a lot of the regs need to be looked at with more scrutiny. I too would not mind the hunts going later into the season, hopefully we can hunt the mallards that seem to hang around here late into the season. I also think our (MN) local ducks are being grossly exploited due to the minimal migration we've seen over the last 6-10 years the dakotas have been wet. I truley feel in my heart we have less woodies, teal and mallards thean we did 10 years ago, and my belief is because we have the highest number of waterfowlers in the nation, but we aren't even close to the top in numbers of birds using our state any longer. This puts even more pressure on locally reared ducks, and thus less birds returning to breed each year. This my two cents and based only on my observations, so call me cracked, but I can honestly say in the 26 years I've duck hunted, this has been the most disappointing season for me. I've seen a downward trend in duck numbers over the last 15 years, and really feel it's acclerated in the last 5 years. aterfowlers as opptimists, will always hope for a brighter next year though.

Good Luck!

Ken

[duckbill]

I used to hunt all the time south of Hutch by Brownton. I might run down there this weekend and setup for the day. The lake that I hunted was no motors and now that I am getting a little older that 1/2 mile pole seems to be worth staying out there all day. I am going to be happy either way but ducks swarming around my head would make it a lot better.

[Guest]

Ken,

Two years ago was the best hunting that we had seen...EVER. This was also stated by my uncle who, in his 70's, has seen many a season. Now last year and this year have been another story. Like you said it all comes down to being in the "pocket" where the ducks are.

Not trying to start a conspiracy theory, but I read an article a few years ago, not sure where, where it said that the USFWS was becomming filled with the anti-hunting sect. This is kind of how the article went- The anti's who are working for the USFWS are in positions where they were in charge of waterfowl numbers counts. They have a plan where they were going to falsify count records to show that there were vastly more "paper ducks" than there actually were, thus allowing for more liberal seasons and limits. They were going to continue to do this until the actual counts were so low that the duck population would be on the edge of complete collapse and then the gov't would have no choice but to close the waterfowl seson for a number of years. Figuring that most waterfowlers would quit the sport after 3,5 or more years of not being able to hunt, the anti's would be able to get legislation passed that would severly limit the hunting of waterfowl because there would be less opposition as well as public outcry caused by the near collapse.

Now I personally think that this article I read was total hog wash and I wish I could find it because it made more sense the way it was written than what I was able to type, but it is a conspiracy theory nonetheless.

Has anyone else seen this article besides me?

[mpester]

I finished my duck season last weekend on the same down note I started the season off with. The family and I are off the the Outer Banks of NC to catch some BIG stripers off the beach for ten days. I got many fewer ducks this year than last. I only got to hunt half as much this year as last because we have a new baby. I never had many ducks around the places I hunt.

Next year, I would like a 60 day season with a FOUR bird limit. I would hate to only have a 30 - 45 day season. I would rather have fewer birds in the bag daily and more day to be out. I would like the season to start a week later than it did this year.

The below report is from the MO waterfowl and habbitat survey for this week. Looks like a below average number of birds south and west of us.

Waterfowl numbers on managed areas gradually increased from 278,683 during the first week of November to 492,845 on 15-16 November. Last year 598,876 ducks were in Missouri by 10 November. A small migration occurred on 11 November. Species composition shifted with a few more mallards showing up, but many gadwalls, green-winged teal, and other early season migrants are still present. Only 23,350 snow geese were observed on Conservation Areas and National Wildlife Refuges.

Conditions north of Missouri continue to be mild. Temperatures in North Dakota and South Dakota have been well above average and wet conditions have substantially delayed harvest. Only 47\% of corn harvest is complete in North Dakota and 70\% in South Dakota. Much of the harvest occurred in the last week when they had drier conditions. Reports also indicate that many ducks are still present in Prairie Canada and North Dakota. Results from a 16 November survey of Missouri Reservoirs in South Dakota indicated the presence of 45,170 ducks compared to 723,233 on 12 November, 2003. In Iowa, mallard numbers (59,485) are also down from last year at this time (197,378). Arkansas reported excellent habitat conditions and 532,904 ducks, up from last year’s November count of 235,744. Louisiana’s November duck numbers (1 million) are down from last year (1.3 million) and about half that of the five-year average (1.9 million).

[LABS4ME]

Tom, I agree I've had good and even banner years over the last 15-20, but I think we'd be hard pressed and kidding ourselves to say there hasn't been a downward trend overall during that time. We keep blaming it on too nice of weather up north, to dry here, to wet there, got too cold too quick, the migration is all out in the Dakota's, etc. etc., when I really feel the numbers are not supported by the USFWS reports. when we were in high school in the late 70's we could go out on any morning and have a chance at limits. We were clueless as to what we were doing as my friend and I were self taught. We killed more ducks then, than I usually can now! What I don't understand is... why can't we have a "liberal" framework as far as duration of the season with the conservative season bag limit? If we have a "bumper" crop of ducks that warrants 60 days, 6 birds now, why not 60 days 4 birds? Why such a ridgid 60 day/6bird. 45 day/4bird, 30 day/3 bird? Let the population models still reflect the duration of the season but cut the bag to a set amount of birds that works within those duration frameworks. I here the arguments I won't go out for only 3 or 4 birds, but we did it in the late 80's and most guys stuck to the sport, and nobody has a problem driving 2 hundred mile for 2 pheasant or 3 grouse. I would think a more flexible framework could be worked out (but it is the fed. govt. right?), I also think a harvest of no more than one hen of any species should be written in. That at least covers you for the accidental hen bill or mallard, but I've seen guys take there 2 hen limit both days on a weekend because it's "the only mallards they had chances at". Could you imagine the pheasant population with that attitude? Maybe you think I'm crying in my soup, but I really care about the sport and think with all these new frameworks and estimation modules the USFWS is using, it's short changing "us", the hunter.

Good luck!

Ken

[CANOPY SAM]

I haven't seen the article Tom, but it does sound a little far fetched - no offense intended.

I don't get out nearly as often as I used to. Now that I have four children most of my time is spent focused on my family, but I still make it out to the field as often as possible.

I've been observing waterfowl migrations for a long time, and have had the priveledge of hunting both ND and MN every season for many years. I believe the numbers are still very good just based on observation, of course. However, as I've stated in discussions on this topic earlier, I honestly believe the migration routes have WIDENED so much that it's nearly impossible to accurately monitor what is happening.

Manitoba and Saskatchewan have ample water and food accross much of the northern reaches. The Dakotas and Montana have strong river systems, as well as the entire prairie pothole region to hide vast numbers of birds that rarely get hunted. The return of good water to all these areas over the last 10 years has created terrific nesting habitat, but has also grossly scattered the birds over a huge area.

There is also no doubt in my mind that there are large numbers of birds staying later in Canada every year. The last 6-8 years we've had above normal temps well into October and November. I've been hunting ND whitetails during the second week in November and seen mammoth migrations of Honkers, Snows & Blues and ducks of every species pour through the state only when a really nasty snow storm pushed them south from their Canadian summer homes. Even long after the majority of the water has frozen over the birds are still hesitant to move south. This has happened year after year for several consecutive years now.

The scientific community has proven that the earth is gradually warming. I saw a really interesting graffic on the weather report a few days ago showing where the snow band usually is by this time of year. Historically there has been snow at least half way through the state of Minnesota by now. This year the snow belt is still NORTH of Lake Winnipeg!

If the USFWS really wants to give us Northern states a fighting chance for some good fall gunning I honestly think they have to bump back the entire season at least two weeks, even up to a month. It's tough hunting in the snow, but it's well worth it in terms of huge northern curlytails, and giant honkers! Maybe an idea to consider would be a staggered season similar to our deer season? This could stretched out over a longer season maybe 8-10 weeks. Four days on, three days off? The birds wouldn't be quite as wary, and they'd still have a chance to move about freely from time to time.

[Guest]

I agree, the article is bunk, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

My idea for a season, and it would never happen because it would make too much sense, would be to let hunters have a choice, much like they do in ND.

What I would like to see is you can pick 2 of 3 season options. The first option would be a 30 day time frame from Sept 24th (or so depending on the year) to Oct 24th (or therebouts). Second option would be a 30 day season from Oct 25th or so tll Nov. 25th. And thirdly, a 15 day season from Nov 26th to Dec. 11th (or there abouts).

A hunter could choose the longer 60 day combo, or a shorter 45 day combo. Of course one would have to choose before the season which combo they wanted, and this would come with a risk of no birds at all if they hunted the last 15 days. They could not legally hunt during the season that they opted not to hunt.

This would do a number of things. 1) It would provide the oppertunity to hunt later in the year and 2) it would also decrease the numbers of hunters during certain times providing less crowded conditions.

My guess is that most hunters would take the first 2 seasons, but I know I would opt for a 45 day season with a better chance at northern birds. I could also spend the fist 30 days fishing and bow hunting

[Sartell Angler]

gonna be hunting the river for mallards...expect to do pretty well given the forecast.

wish the season was open for 2 more weeks though...

also can't wait for late goose hunting...but its a shame we can't hunt geese all the way through from the close of the duck season to the end of the late season....last year our best goose hunting came over the thanksgiving weekend.

ps- there are no EPP geese around these parts- let us hunt the Giants!

Sartell Angler / Woodduckwizard

[honker23]

I think we have some good ideas here. I feel we don't need 6 ducks a day. Give us four over 60 days. We also start too soon. I would glady give up a few flocks of teal for the chance at the migrating flocks of mals. Another option for both parties would be a split season. Open it for a week (first weekend in Oct) and then close it for two weeks. The second and third weekends usually suck, and people could hunt pheasants or fish.

Some of the best years for me included the 3 bird limit years and the first 6 bird years. But a main factor for me was lack of hunting pressure at that time. A lake that held 4-5 hunting parties 10 years ago, will now have 15 parties out on the weekends. Less birds to go around.

And of course we need a little cooperation from mother nature, I have been catching waleyes through the ice on Thanksgiving, and this year we will still be in the boat.

[superfish2]

Well I just need to throw my two cents in. This was one of my worst years of duck hunting ever. I really don't care if I shoot that many birds as long as I see some. This year there were several days of nothing but empty skies.

I'm not sure if the 4 bird 60 day season would work. I like the idea of being able to hunt 60 days. But how many of us ever shoot a 6 bird limit? If you guys are like me you hunt every chance you get and usauly bag a bird or two, somedays you get skunked and some days are really good.

I do like the idea of the split season. I think we need to take some pressure off the local ducks.

[ironman]

This is the first year since 1991, that i've hunted ducks, so I dont have the last decade plus of experience to base any kind of model of duck populations. I think what alot of people are doing is looking for that "one" thing to blame the bad hunting on. I think it's like alot of other things in life...it's no "one" big thing ...but a bunch of small things together. People want a later start so they can hunt later...but the some people also wanted an earlier season because of times when they couldn't hunt late due to early winter. I'm not ready to jump aboard the global warming ship quite yet...we've been keeping weather records for just over a century...and we think we have a pattern to go on? 100 years in the life of this planet is so insignificant. My personal opinion is that we're in a warmer cycle right now...but dont forget...the last year I duck hunted was also the year that winter started rather suddenly on Halloween and the latest snow report in MN was back in the 40's and it was in early Jan....so you never know.

I wouldn't be hurt by a smaller bag limit....but think about this, just because the limit is six...doesn't mean you have to take six. We can all set our own personal limits. I realize you cant shoot and release like catch and release fishing...but you can limit yourself if you so choose. It seems we all wait for some entity to help us choose how best to preserve our past time. We all have that power. If you own land...you dont need the Gov to let you set aside land...you can do it yourself and so on and so on. Dont get me wrong I'm not judging or saying keeping six is wrong, not at all, I'm just saying if you think the limit is too liberal...make your own.

I'm obviously no expert on this...just what I've observed from other people's experience and my own limited one. Just based on this year...I think a split season makes sense. Hunt some locals.....give em a rest, the middle part of the season this year for me was nearly void of ducks, then hunt the later season in hopes of some northern ducks. But that's this year..next could be totally different. We need to be careful not to make Knee jerk reactions and to look at the whole picture and make the best decisions we can to optimize the seasons now and in the future for our children.

I'm going somewhere this weekend...but as of right now...I haven't decided where, but I will be out. If I dont see any or few ducks...oh well, at least I'm there.

I'm already planning for next year.

Good luck everyone!

[Guest]

I do believe this has been the least amount of ducks I have seen in all my years of duck hunting. Thank goodness for Geese!!

There is always alot of talk about pressure and in some areas that has probably caused some changes but there is also alot of good areas with light to no pressure and good habitat that has held little to nothing. On the other hand where are the waters that hold freshwater shrimp that the divers feed upon? Has the high water The biggest factor may be mother nature. What a change over the years. I used to look for good spots on the north and west sides on lakes to set-up and now I am searching the east and south sides more and more due to the fall winds. I think to get a good season with steady birds many factors need to fall in place. First is birds. Second is major fronts from the north and a gradual freeze to lock up the water in canada along with snow to make feeding on fields difficult. Not happening this year.

I would imagine there have been very few years like this in the Bemidji area where a hunter did not need to travel south to find a lake that was accessible at the end of the season, rivers yes, lakes not so much.

To me the idea of an early season would be one that is maybe 3 or 4 days in length and only for teal and wood ducks. Sure there are people that will not make good I.D.'s but that to me is a lame excuse for not having it. There are alot of specie specific regs and what makes people any better later than early other than some change in plummage, there are many other aspects to I.D. than that.

Up here I'm used to not getting the full season in without having to travel, I don't care for it but oh well. I like the 60 days and maybe a little later start if there is an early season. I don't think many would of minded losing the second week of season too much in exchange for lengthening the seasonand still allow some time for early teal/wood duck. Heck leave the geese open except for over water and close ducks.

And Canvasbacks how about a permit on each license for 2 Canvasbacks per season? Or a Swan/Sandhill season. Lots off opprotunities out there to be had if we could be afforded it.

I've ranted enough - Seeya

[Fowlguy]

I have been hunting ducks in mn, sense 1948 & this year is as bad as it gets. Next year lets have 30 days with a 3 bird limit.