Food Plots vs Ethics

[Canuck]

I may be way out in left field but are you guys that are planting food plots hunting around them? I have hunted deer for most of my 50 yrs and personally have never hunted around or near an area that is planted for deer. For a couple of years we put out a mixture of salt and calcium but we called this area off limits for at least a half mile. Under Boone & Crockett or Pope and Young does Fair Chase allow hunting around baited areas or are people getting around this by saying planting food plots is not baiting.
When ever I drive through the UP in the fall I see these signs where people are selling apples and just cringe. We, hunters have enough trouble with "green peacers" or "anti hunting public" and I personally believe it is only a matter of time before they get on this and we the hunters will get another black eye.
If putting out food plots is to just to help the herd through the winter, great, but hunting a 'baited area' just doesn't seem fair.

[RiverRunner]

Canuck, I agree with you on that deer should never be baited with Corn or apple piles. But I think a food plot is completly different. Food plots are their year round to provide the deer with food,nutrition etc. How is hunting over a food plot any diffrent then hunting over a soy bean or corn field? I don't think it is both are food sources that the deer use. You know the deer will be their but that doesn't give you a guarenteed ticket to kill that deer.

[Mark Christianson]

My thoughts exactly.

How many hunters have stands near or on crop fields?

If it was an issue, you could just as well shut down hunting in the bottom half of MN, because its mostly agricultural, and hunters are set up all over on trails leading to or from crops; or flat out set up on the crops.

This year will be my first attempt at a plot by using "food plot" seed.
So I have no idea if its all hype or not, but I am gonna give it a shot.
And I will have a bow stand on or near the locations.

[Canuck]

Well, a farmer's soybean or corn field is as natural as U can get but a food plot really isn't if it is placed there just for hunting over. Really a soybean field is no different that an oak ridge but I noticed some guys were sugguesting to plant various plants to keep them green over a longer period. Most farmers crops are off the field when we rifle hunt, in fact one guy had hail damage and the crop never came off and the Natural Resourses guys came in and posted his entire field and quite an area around the field . I got to thinking about this over the weekend when I saw this guy hunting way down south (a TV show) where it was extremely dry and he had a drilled well and set up a drinking hole strickly for shooting over and it just didn't seem right. I know it is illegal to throw out corn etc in fields and in ponds to attract migratory birds so how is that different than food plots for deer?
I can say I am really pleased that the two come backs were real civil and I hope we can keep it that way. I was just curious if anybody else thought the way I do or am I totally wrong. I am by NO way anti-hunting, infact, I am the only white guy in Canada that challanged the govt. on their stupid law on gun registration concerning 'sustance hunting' and actually won that point, all we eat is wild game.

[Mark Christianson]

Canuck

It is actually a good question. I had not thought of it before.
The food plots do attract game during hunting season from what I see/hear. The other thing they do though, is give ample food supplements when the going gets rough.

Kind of a 2-fold topic.
Does it draw animals? Yes
Does it help sustain wildlife during the non-hunting seasons? Yes

I firmly believe in habitat, improving what is left, and restoring what can be restored. I personally look at the food plots and crops as one way to give back to what I take out of the outdoors. (In addition to a lot of other projects I have in progress through state and Fed governments)

I am very interested to hear what others think of it as well.

[PerchJerker]

Hunting over food plots is nothing like baiting. I have food plots in Minnesota, and have been on baited hunts for whitetails in WI, MI, and Saskatchewan. I've also been on baited bear hunts.

Baiting is putting out food specifically to attract the animals, and even to position them in an exact spot for a shot (like right in front of your stand). No matter how much food you put out, it's a limited supply and can artificially influence the way the deer behave. That's the part I don't like - artificially influencing their behavior. An extreme example is the guys who use feeders with timers.

Another thing I don't like about baiting is that it concentrates the feeding in a small area, increasing the risk of disease. This is not a concern with deer browsing through food plots.

I agree with what Canuck said about MI - you can't turn around without bumping into someone selling deer bait -- corn, apples, carrots, sugar beets, alfalfa -- you name, they sell it everywhere (been a few years since I was there so maybe it's different now).

Food plots are vastly different than baiting. There's no difference between hunting food plots and hunting any other food source. It's always there and always availabe for the deer, so they're free to come and go as they please. Their preference for food sources changes frequently and rapidly, especially in the fall, and hunting over a "cold" food plot is a sure way to not see much activity. In other words, you still need to scout and you still need to use your hunting skills -- it's not automatic. And you're not positioning deer for a perfect shot - they circle the food plots, hang back in the woods, come in from all different directions, move about the plots randomly and not always in range, etc. During bow season there's some daytime activity in my food plots, but once gun season opens there's almost no daytime activity in the food plots. Sometimes I hunt over my food plots, but sometimes I hunt on trails leading to the food plots, and sometimes I hunt cover or funnels not related to the food plots.

I'd sum it up like this. If you hunt right over food plots you should see your share of does, fawns, and young bucks. But if you're looking for a little bigger buck, you better get back in the cover a ways, or hope to catch one that's acting stupid from the rut.

Personally, I believe in the principles the QDMA supports -- provide improved nutrition for the deer, increase the harvest of adult does, and limit the harvest of young bucks to try to balance the population. There's no question food plots give improved nutrition, and not just for deer but for all wildlife. And not just for hunting season, but all year long. I definately have more opportunities to shoot deer now that I have food plots, but Minnesota's rules limit me and every other hunter to 1 buck and maybe a few anterless deer per year. Having more opportunities to shoot deer is not the same thing as shooting more deer. I buy the 2-deer all season license, fill the doe tag as soon as I can, and then hope to get a crack at Big Daddy.

Feel free to question my ethics because I hunt over food plots. But I have guidelines for the hunters on my property, that if they're experienced hunters that have killed a deer or two, they have to pass on any buck that's under 2.5 years old. I feel my food plots and harvest guidelines are beneficial to the deer population. But there's hunters around me that shoot any deer they see, then try to find someone with a doe tag. There's hunters around me that set up right on my property lines, and hunters that shoot deer as they cross the road. There's a guy a mile away from me that has a deer feeder under the mercury light in his yard. Personally, I question the ethics of those types of hunters.

[Canuck]

Thanks guys and I mean thanks. I am not questioning anybodys ethics and from the sounds of the come backs you all are there to hunt not shoot. Yes I am sure food plots are there year round and provide a healthy food supply year round not like the apple and hay piles etc. We have horses and to prevent them from digging in the hay shed I have gone out and put hay out specifically for the deer and these deer get quite tame in my opinion and I could not shoot (it would be shooting not hunting) any of they in good faith. One year there was a buck in the 170 class and it sure is nice to watch them. I think I have learned abit watching them in the yard. My last two deer were 6 X 5s and both taken by rattling.
You mentioned Saskatchewan, and I get a real bad taste in my mouth when I see them putting hay out and some guy sitting in a heated hut waiting for a buck come to the dinner table. This hay is only out just before the season and stopped as soon as the season is over. Now this can NOT nor it should it be placed in the same catagory as food plots.
Thanks again I have a much better feeling about the food plots now.

[don62]

Another thing about food plots I think about is the fact that they are growing much bigger racks these days with added nutrition, is it fair to the old timers that got the monster bucks before these additives were around to have there records topped..

[Mark Christianson]

I am not out to break any records. I just have a passion to shoot a biggun for me. That's it.

Granted if I shot a 200 class deer, I would enter it in the books.

Keep in mind, the old timers that shot those deer many years ago, most likely weren't after a B/C deer.
They were just after deer in general.
So I doubt there will be much animosity towards the deer going in the books these days.

[Beeber]

Canuck,

Good topic and interesting points!

I tend to agree with PerchJerker when he says:

"I'd sum it up like this. If you hunt right over food plots you should see your share of does, fawns, and young bucks. But if you're looking for a little bigger buck, you better get back in the cover a ways, or hope to catch one that's acting stupid from the rut."

I spent my childhood on a Beef/smallgrain farm in the middle of the woods so anything we did agronomically tended to increase the number of deer around. But that does not mean we shot a lot of deer. Personally I enjoy a nice home-grown grilled beef stake or barbecued pork chops more then I do venison. So I would not call myself a meat hunter. (I do think it is unethical not to eat what you shoot however) I just really enjoy going up to the farm in the summer and fall and seeing deer. It is a fact that in a hard winter without an additional food source that the deer herd will suffer especially in NE MN where most deer sustain themselves on Aspen buds and other forest browse. Planting food plots help deer go into the winter in good condition and can provide them with an additional food source when the going gets tough in Jan. and Feb.. If my trophy wall is any indication, food plots may not guarantee you a huge rack but it will at least let you see more deer and wildlife in general.

Later

Beeber

[PerchJerker]

I have a comment about don62's comments -- that food plots are growing much bigger bucks due to better nutrition, and "additives".

I'm not sure just what you getting at, and I might be reading too much into your use of the word "additives". But I don't keep deer in a pen and pump them full of vitamins and supplements to grow huge antlers. I have free ranging deer, and I manage my property for wildlife. Food plots are part of that, along with tree planting, selective timber cuttings, and browse managment.

I provide improved nutrition to the deer, but that doesn't mean the bucks are instantly and automatically going to grow monster antlers. You still need the young bucks to turn into old bucks before you'll get big antlers.

If everything works right, food plots help the health and size of all the deer. The nutritious forage in perennial foodplots is available for the deer right away in the spring, so the does give birth to bigger and healthier fawns. The does produce more milk for the fawns. The fawns will be bigger and healthier going into the winter because of the improved nutrition, which leads to them being in better shape coming out of the winter. If that cycle repeats itself for 3 or 4 years (and the bucks live that long) they'll definately be bigger than a 3 or 4 year old buck that's spent his whole life eating less nutritious natural forage, going into the winter with less fat reserves, coming out of winter weaker and more worn down, having to wait longer in the spring for the native forage to green up, etc.

My point is that the nutrition helps the deer (in addition to other wildlife), but you still have to be lucky enough to shoot a 3 or 4 or 5 year old buck to get "much bigger antlers".

Hey, let's go hunting!

[jlm]

I have been planting food plots for years and have also pondered this question. My thoughts about this might cause a stir with some but I will just be honest. Food plots do attract deer and I do hunt and harvest deer over them. I feel that a good plot does more good than harm. A couple of deer are harvested but the many that are not have a good food source. I guess it is a trade off. I am also a supporter of baiting deer and do not see any problem with it ethically (too bad it is outlawed). I agree there are flaws with that but there are also just as many positives but that is another topic. To me, planting food plots with the intent of harvesting deer is no different than using scents, rattling, or other methods that attract deer. We are basically attracting deer that would not otherwise be there if we did not use the methods we employ. IS rattling that much different than planting a food plot. I sure don't think so, the concept is the same.

[Canuck]

Perchhunter: I agree "Lets go Huntin". I think all your replys have changed my attitude about Food Plots, not that I am going out and start one. I hunt almost 100% on Crown Land,, even though I have lots of access to private land. It's just the bigger bucks seem hang out in the deeper bush and I have found that most people really don't like venturing beyond a mile from any road and the smarter bucks seem to know that and have their home terrority in the deep bush.

The comments about letting the young bucks go I believe is major reasons why we have decent bucks in Manitoba. Now this may sound off the wall and sounding like a lot of hot air but I believe the 'Hanson" buck will be beat and beat in Manitoba within the next 10 yrs. A couple years ago approx. 1/8 mile from one of my deer stands a shed was found that some so called 'expert' said if they had the match it would be in the 210 range. My largest so far is 189 5/8 and I have messed up of bucks that scored more, but that is huntin. We have the gens, heavy bush, light winters lately, feed and really not that many hunters. A 180 class buck will never reach that mark if he is shot as a 2 yr old.

I am a serious catfisherman until the 1st of Sept then it is all huntin. I do spend many a day prior to the 1st Sept though walking the bush looking for trails, sign and new spots for blinds etc. There are not many deer trails that I am not aware of in the area I hunt.

[don62]

Perchjerker, yea, your reading to much into it.. Is there a plant that grows well in a wooded area,where there is no clearing?

[This message has been edited by don62 (edited 03-31-2004).]

[PerchJerker]

Howdy Don62

About a plant that grows well in a wooded area ..... the first thing you need is to get your seeds in contact with the soil (vegetation, leaves, sticks, etc. needs to be cleared aside), and the next thing you need is sunlight. If you're in a heavily wooded area you might not get enough sunlight for germination.

The Whitetail Institute sells a seed blend called Imperial No Plow. I read somewhere that this blend needs only 2-3 hours of sunlight a day. I think most other plantings want at least 4 hours each day.

Old logging roads and trails can make good food plots, so if you have something like that you could try planting it. Roads or narrow food plots that run north-south will get more sun than ones that run east-west.

If your woods are mature enough that the canopy blocks out the sun and opens up the understory, you might want to consider taking down a few trees, or killing them and leaving them standing. When the sun hits the forest floor you'll get a rapid and thick undergrowth, which the wildlife will use for food and cover. Doesn't need to be a very big area you're opening up. Most of my food plots were created this way - take out the shade trees and brush, and plant in the new opening. Your local DNR or Wildlife Division or even Foresters could probably give you some specific pointers for your woods. Good luck.