Weimeraner dogs

[bigeyes]

Anybody know much about them? Any good advice on picking one out and pros and cons of breed? Looking for a good family dog, that I can grouse, pheasant and duck/goose hunt with? Anybody know of places in MN where a guy can find breeders of this dog?

Thanks
James

[setterguy]

If you are going to be hunting primarily in Minnesota I would consider another breed. Wemis, Vizslas and GSPs are categorized as versatile dogs however they are not going to take the cold as well as a German Wirehaire for instance. A lot has to do on what kind of hunting you primarily do. Are you mainly a grouse hunter or do you do them all equally? Are you set on a pointing breed? Have you ever owned a pointing dog before? I personally don't hunt ducks so pointing dogs make sense for me. I would also be the first one to tell you that they aren't for everyone. They tend to be a little more "wired" than a lab or similiar breed. I would also do my homework if you do decide on a Weimi. They have become very popular lately and a lot of new breeders have sprung up, breeding dogs that shouldn't be bred just to make an extra buck. Good luck with the search.

[bigeyes]

Thanks Setterguy, I mainly grouse and pheasant hunt, but am starting to do more duck/goose. I have never had a pointer before. Don't do much hunting in extreme cold, but was kinda hoping I could take the dog ice fishing with me some times.

[gspman]

Bigeyes,
Be very careful and do alot of research if you want a weimi. The odds of getting a truly good one are against you. Also the dropoff between a good/great weimi and an average weimi is a large dropoff.

I would suggest looking at a wirehair first and a shorthair second if your truly interested in waterfowling with a pointer.

I you have your heart set on a gray dog, start your research at versatiledogs dot com. There are folks there who have a lot of knowledge about weimi's. Pay attention to the posts by a guy called McTuna. He owns and hunts weimi's and posts pretty good, unbiased info. Post your guestions there.
Definitely try to get ahold of the Nortstar Weimaraner Club here in MN. Good folks in the club. Talk to the breed secretary and he/she should be able to put you in contact with breeders of hunting weimi's in MN/WI Here's their HSOforum link.

http://www.northstarweim.com/

www dot northstarweim dot com in case some filtering software takes out the link above.

The guys at versatile dogs at one point said there are one or 2 breeders in MN/WI that produce decent weimi's, the Northstar Club may know better than them though. I would definitely not limit myself to just local area breeders. Dick Wilber is a good weimi breeder. He operates down in Texas I think.
Dianne Vater operates in Pennsylvania and is one of the top weimi trialers in the country.

I ran one of my dogs at a weimi trial once and was not overly impressed, but the things I look for are probably quite different than what the weimi folks are looking for. To each his own. I would definitely ask to see both parents hunt so you know how mom & dad operate in the field. Good luck. 8^)

gspman

[gspman]

here's a link on the other message board. The question was can the grey ghost still hunt?

http://forum.versatiledogs.com/viewtopic.php?t=424

[sakman]

I have hunted with Weimers, GSP's and Vizslas. I have a V so I am very partial to them. They are FABULOUS family dogs and extremely easy to train since all they want to do is make you happy. However, they are very, very, very affectionate and you won't be able to take one ice fishing unless you have a someplace warm. Mine begins to shiver at 50 degrees if she isn't active and it only gets worse as the weather gets colder. However, they do OK in cold weather hunting as long as you keep them moving and on birds. (I hunt in Iowa into January.)They do need to adjust to hunting grouse. The reason is (and it's the same for Weimers & GSP's) they are primarily ground scenters. They were bred to hunt pheasants and grassland birds so they will tend to point closer than a setter. They do learn to point grouse from further away, but it takes several outings for them to catch on to this factoid.

Good luck and happy hunting!

[bigeyes]

Thanks guys. I am not sure what to look for in a pup, but I don't think I need an excellent bred dog. I only get to hunt maybe 6 days a year and about half of those days we don't even see a bird. I also would not have the time/expierience it takes to have develop a great dog even if I spent the $ on the bloodlines It would be wasted by my lack of taining him. I would be happy with a good family friend and hunting companion who likes being out and running around even if he is not a skilled hunter. Do you guys recommend shooting next to the pup or dropping something loud by them before I pick one? Don't want him to be gunshy.

[sakman]

Boy have you started something here. There will be as many opinions here as there are dogs. So here's mine. I believe that you would find yourself hunting more if you had a quality dog. It makes the whole experience more fun, and the wife can't complain (too much) because the dog is having such a great time.

Regarding gunshyness, when my dog was a pup, those of us who bought pups from that litter hired a local trainer who gave us group lessons. The pups were all about 14 weeks old when we started. He introduced them to birds by putting them in a flight pen with some quail and letting the pups catch and kill a few. We met once a week for six weeks. He gradually moved the pups up to disabled pigeons and started firing a blank pistol into a pad to muffle the bang while the pups were chasing the pigeons. He gradually made the bang louder until the final lesson when he let the dogs find (and point) a hidden pigeon and he shot them with a shotgun. His idea was to teach the dogs that bang means big fun. Bottom line is: you won't be able to determine if a six week old pup is gunshy. However, you can train them to not be gunshy.

I firmly believe that if you have a well bred dog from hunting bloodlines, that has been introduced to birds, experience is the best training device. Hunting is an instinctive trait in bird dogs, not something that is trained into them. (A six week old pointer pup will fetch and retrieve a ball and will point a pheasant wing because of instinct.) The trick is getting them on birds, or taking them for walks in places that hold birds. More than anything professional trainers put them on birds. Also, playing with a retrieving dummy that has bird scent on it may help. I tried to make anything that involved birds fun for mine. Also, don't forget obedience training; it is critical to having a dog that you and others can live (and hunt) with.

[gspman]

Bigeyes,
If you don't have alot of time to spend training a dog I would think it would be very important to get a dog with good natural ability. Otherwise your 6 days in the field will be incredibly frustrating because you'll be birdless and angry at your poor performing, untrained dog. Not to mention your hunting partners will be stressed out by the dog too. I would personally suggest not getting a dog if you're not going to be able to put the time into training it and just hooking up with people with dogs that you can hunt with.
gspman

[bigeyes]

Ok, I want to learn more and consider GSP. How friendly are they. Like I said I only get to hunt once it a while, but we really want an excellent family dog. Good around children and strangers, other dogs, etc... How is this dog with being kenneled all day well at work?

Thanks

[sakman]

I have a very good buddy with whom I hunt about twenty days per season who has GSP's. They are wonderful family dogs that are very friendly. The ones that he has/had have always had excellent noses and lots of natural ability. They are very rangy, really run, cover a lot of ground (quickly) and, from what I've seen of his dogs (and other GSP's) a training (shock) collar is required to keep them reined in. I'm not sure if this a breed characteristic but his have always seemed to be more interested in hunting for themselves than for us. His dogs have also seemed to be one person dogs, meaning they seem to attach themselves to a favorite family member. This can make them seem to be somewhat aloof to other people and family members. They also seem to shed quite heavily as the back of my truck is always full of fur after a day of hunting. From what I've seen in obdience training, they can be a challenge to train because it appears that they can be stubborn. My buddy does kennel his for the day, but they spend the balance of the day with his family. I would guess the breed does better (as all dogs do) with lots of contact with their people. I know there are some negatives here, but you really can't go wrong with this breed since they are good companions, and quality field stock should be easy to locate without costing you two weeks' salary. I do like the breed, but they wouldn't be my first choice. Just remember: make certain that the OFA certs on both parents is good or better. OFA certs are predictors of hip dysplasia. Good or better on the parents means you probably won't have any issues with dysplasia in your dog.

[gspman]

Bigeyes,
You can get almost anything you want in a shorthair due to the relatively large gene pool. From close ranging (almost plodding) to ones that scour the horizon. This also means that you have to do some research to find what you want. A gsp is generally a very happy, friendly, and energetic family dog. Generally they are not a one person dog and will be friendly with most everyone once they get to know you. Weimi's and wirehairs tend to be much more reserved towards others in my experience. Gsp's are very good with kids but can be a bit too energetic with toddlers. A toddler will be knocked over regularly by a pup or young dog. They make pretty good alert dogs, but most I've seen are not overly protective. Mine will bark when a stranger is around, but after a minute the dogs become friendly with almost anyone. I actually prefer that. I don't want an aggressive dog or a biter. Dog's from field trial stock will be wound a bit tighter than show dogs, or other shorthairs. If you want something close ranging go for a "german" german shorthair, or pick a dog from trial lines that are gundog range and be very specific in your requirements to the breeder, or go to a hunting preserve or hunting breeder for a dog. Be careful with backyard breeders. There's no reason a breeder shouldn't fully guarantee the health of a shorthair for aleast 2 or 3 years as they are generally a fairly genetically sound breed. Another plus is since they are smaller than a weimi they will eat and [PoorWordUsage] less as well as take up less space in the car and the house. All dogs shed so that's not an issue although the shorter hair is usually less visible but harder to clean up. Gsp's should retrieve naturally and should have alot of point and prey drive in them. Your odds of getting a servicable to very good bird dog from the breed are very high. Apologies for rambling all over the place. Good luck. If you need more info let me know. Thanks.
gspman

[STILLNOFISH]

Bigeyes,

Here is my experience with weimis. My family has been the proud owner of a Weimi for about 4 years now. My parents are the owners of a 10 yr. old GSP and a 7 yr old Weimi. 2 of my sisters own Weimis with the youngest owning a Viszla (sp?) We have come to the conclusion that for a family dog, hands down the Weimi wins, with the Viszla second. As for hunting my Weimi is the only one that hunts. She does extremely well in the ND fields were we hunt. I would say my parents GSP is a little better hunter right now as an overall hunter but the Weimi does everything I need to have fun in the field. If your looking for a nice family dog that CAN hunt, I would still consider a Weimi. Like others said do a little research on the breeders. Again this is just my experience with those three breeds.

[Roosterslayer05]

Bigeyes- You said you dont hunt much and you dont want to spend much time training a dog. Maybe you should just get a flushing dog. All we had to do to train my goldens and my uncles lab is to play fetch with a pheasent wing once in a while and bring them to a game farm a couple times and they picked it up, it wasent hard at all. Once my uncles lab figured out pheasent hunting he picked up duck hunting in one weekend. He retrieved his first duck in the water then we cripled one and he found it easily even though he dident see it fall. Then I decided to take the dog grouse hunting for the first time and he got on the scent of birds and scared them up even though it was his first time and we had never shot a grouse or showed him a grouse before. Very little training for a great bird dog. I have heard it takes longer to train a pointer. For the little hunting you do it might be better to get a fusher plus they are great family dogs, thats just my biased opinion.