Firearm Safety Question

[Crappie Rage]

My son turns 12 this summer. The only reasonably close firearm safety class is full. If I can't find him a class, can he still hunt?

[aanderud]

The DNR says 12 year olds can hunt small game without a certificate. I think that sort of implies no deer (which I'm guessing you'll be hunting), but can't be sure. I'd have to look up specific regs on deer to know for sure. Also, they specifically mention no turkeys for 12 year olds. But if you're just looking for waterfowl and pheasants or upland game, you ought to be good to go.

Here's where I got this info:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/apprentice/index.html

Quote:

When is a Firearms Safety Certificate or Apprentice Hunter Validation required? Anyone born after 1979 is required to have a FAS Certificate to hunt with a firearm, except youth age 12 and under may hunt small game (11 and under for turkeys) without a Firearms Safety Certificate/ Apprentice Hunter Validation as long as a parent or guardian accompanies them.

Edit: Yes, it looks like you're definitely OK for small game at age 12, but not big game (deer) or turkeys. See top row of this little table:

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/hunting/2011/regs-firearms-safety-cert.pdf

[nofishfisherman]

Keep an eye on the list of classes, seem like more pop up as other fill up. Still a lot of time before hunting season so wouldn't be surprised if more classes open up. Just make sure to jump on the first one that will work.

Another option would be to contact a local instructor directly. I believe names and numbers are posted on the DNR HSOforum in the education section. They may be able to give you info on when and where more classes are planned or might help you find another workable solution. Just don't wait around too long to talk to someone, its all about timing so the more time you allow the better.

[aanderud]

You could also do the online thing and then register for the field day to complete the course. Got this link from the MN dnr page.

http://www.huntercourse.com/usa/minnesota/

You basically take this class online, print out a voucher, and then attend a 1-day "field day" rather than the classroom training plus the field day. That way, even if you have to drive a fairly long distance for the field day, it's not multiple days of driving.

Register for a field day here:

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/safety/firearms/index.html#calendar

[brittman]

You can use the apprenticeship "waiver" once. Read the rules on this.

Note there are also rules tied to hunter age on how close the adult / parent needs to be with them.

My personal opinion is the on-line option is just WRONG for anyone under the age of 18. Juveniles should be required to attend the classroom training.

I have had two children go through the classroom training and I actually tried to attend about 50% of the class activites with them. Exposure to LAOs and COs are a beneficial part of the process. It is a great refresher on how to be ultra safe. Remember that while the classroom and field training provides the base, it is the parent that fosters the approach to safey from then on.

Classes are added all the time. If you live in South St Paul there should be no problem finding a class withing 15 miles of your home before Sept.

[Crappie Rage]

Thanks Guys. Will keep checking for classes. I agree with the attending class part.

[aanderud]

You can use the apprenticeship "waiver" once. Read the rules on this.

...

My personal opinion is the on-line option is just WRONG for anyone under the age of 18. Juveniles should be required to attend the classroom training.

You can actually use the "waiver" twice in a lifetime, so it's an option if hunting season sneaks up on someone. However, I don't see why you'd advocate a waiver (which implies no formalized training and no field day) in one sentence, but then two sentences later you say you wouldn't trust the online course. At least the online course is some number of hours of formal education followed by a field day. Maybe not as good as attending the full course in person, but I bet if you were to sit through the training with your kid, pausing it now and then to answer questions he has and describing things further than the online tutorial does, it could easily be as good as an in-person class. In any case, the online course seems better than a waiver to me, but to each their own.

Also, I'd disagree with your sentiment that only juveniles are at risk here. Adults don't even have to go to the real field day, they can do a "virtual" field day after taking the online thing. If anything, the first thing I'd change about the online course is that I'd say everyone needs to attend an in-person field day (adults and juveniles).

There's also nothing saying you can't do the online course and field day, to get your son legal now, and ALSO watch for a real course to open up. If one opens, you're good to go -- just attend it. If one doesn't, you're still good to go as the education he got is better than just the 'waiver' (and the restrictions it brings with it).

[nofishfisherman]

I did the online class as an adult a few years ago. Its was actually fairly decent for an online course. It is paced so that you are forced to spend a certain amount of time on each page reviewing info before you are allowed to go on. I was skeptical about it at first but after going through it I thought it did a pretty fair job.

As far as field day goes I was still required to do an in person field day. Maybe there is a virtual field day option available now but there wasn't even 2 years ago. My field day ended up being nothing more than taking a written test in a parking lot with a few other people and filling out a form. I've heard from others that took the online class that is how their field days where handled as well. There was no instruction given and certainly no gun range time. Without being apart of an actual class with an included field day I think range time is too hard to come by so most of the time it is skipped. At least that's what was explained to me when I called up instructors looking for someone to do a field day for me.

I just looked on the DNR web site and the virtual field is a new addition. It makes sense the offer it considering how hard it was for me to set up a field day for myself. There were very few options available and all were simply a joke in terms what was taught. There is no way the virtual filed day teaches someone less than what I learned in my in person field day.

For a kid I would suggest the in person class if possible. If nothing else it allows them a chance to ask questions and talk with other knowledgeable people.

[Crappie Rage]

Let me rephrase, My concern was with my son being able to get a hunting license. Mainly for ducks and rabbits. Whatever hunting he does I would be sitting right next to him. With or without firearm safety. Yes, online would be better than nothing, but it would prefer a class.

I hunted alone at twelve with a rifle, but right now I would not feel comfortable with my 12 year old hunting alone. Besides, it is incredibly exciting to hunt with him!

[aanderud]

My field day ended up being nothing more than taking a written test in a parking lot with a few other people and filling out a form. I've heard from others that took the online class that is how their field days where handled as well. There was no instruction given and certainly no gun range time.

That's TERRIBLE. What the heck is a "field day" for a gun safety course if there's no range involved? Wow, talk about missing the boat on that one. I understand that it's not a trivial task to get range time, but what's the point of a field day that's just a parking lot sign-off? They must view the field day as some kind of checkbox to satisfy a legislator somewhere, I guess. I expected it would be hands-on with guns at a range LOL.

[brittman]

The DNR should have someone at all Field Days for online participants. There should be extensive gun safety work and actual shooting.

A conservation officer should also book an hour to talk too.

Convenience should not be a factor with gun safety classes. One starts to wonder if the DNR is more concerned about generating future licenses sales ?

[brittman]

Again the classes my older two participated in were good. Both had actual gun handling and safety protocol practice in most every class they attended.

Videos, guest speakers, etc... all good.

[nofishfisherman]

That's TERRIBLE. What the heck is a "field day" for a gun safety course if there's no range involved? Wow, talk about missing the boat on that one. I understand that it's not a trivial task to get range time, but what's the point of a field day that's just a parking lot sign-off? They must view the field day as some kind of checkbox to satisfy a legislator somewhere, I guess. I expected it would be hands-on with guns at a range LOL.

I agree,I thought it should include some actual hands on instruction. It was really a joke and just a hoop to jump through that served no purpose. When you do the online class you can join one of the scheduled field days which would provide a better experience but its very hard to get into just the field day since there is way more demand then there is supply. That leaves most online class participants to contact instructors on their own to set up individual field days (this was before the virtual option). That's when things get sketchy. All the instructors have to do is submit the paper work to the DNR saying you completed the field day, there is no oversight to verify that the field days are actually including what they are supposed to include.

Fortunately I started out hunting with 2 good friends that are very experienced. I did 2 years of the apprentice program with them and spent a good amount of time at the range with one or both of them learning the ropes. So because I had good friends who wanted me to learn properly it still worked out for me but I know there are a lot of people falling through the cracks and getting licenses that are lacking in any real firearm education.

[harvey lee]

My granddaughter did the online class late last spring. They told me they were full for the field day but if we got the online class done in time they would try to squeeze her in. One of my friends is one of the instructors and I asked him if she could not get in for the field day if he would do a one on one with her so she could complete the class in time for deer hunting, he said sure and I said I would pay him for his time. She ended up getting into the field day and she was there for close to 6 hours. Many things were discussed and she got to shoot a 22, 12 gauge, muzzleloader and another gun I do not remember. She is not that big and she told me the .50 cal muzzleloader kicked pretty hard. The field day was awesome and then. They also fed them a wiener roast supper.

[harvey lee]

At her field day the local C O was there also. This past month they had approx 70 kids for the field day and my friend said it continues to grow every year. He said they were looking for additional instructors and I said I would be more than willing to help. So, now I need to take the instructor. 2 of my friends just got awards for 30 years of teaching, they have done a lot for the safety of these kids. Should be fun to help out next year. I know through this Sportsmanship club, many offer their time for the classes and the kids an that is what it takes. It's good to hear so many want to take the class, kids should take it even if they never hunt as it would be good safety wise if everyone took the class. Heck, I believe it should be offered in school, maybe one life could be saved from a young in being around a weapon that does not know how to care for it. If nothing else, they would know too call the police if they came upon a gun

[aanderud]

Glad your field day experience was better, Tom.