Seasonal ethics?

[Guest]

This is to imbass,

You are so of base in using your Texas example it is pathetic. There are a ton of factors why Texas does not have the same numbers in most of there lakes a MN. First of all the bass fishing pressure is 10 times what it is here. Forage base and amount of bass their lakes can support is no where near what our natural lakes have vs. their man made resiviors.

Also all evidence shows that with largemouth bass there is no reduction of the amount or quality of the bass if there is a season during the spawn. Some studies show that smallies can be hurt if they are taken during the spawn since they are more susceptble.

[Smallie]

Kt, if the weather stays consistent I beleive on most of the lakes you will be face with the spawn, and probably a little more post spawn.

All depending on the body of water your on.
I have already seen some fish bedded up. But the weather has been a little inconsistent so that would push am back to pre-spawn.

The deeper clear lakes are in the low 50's shallow mud and sand lakes have been 57 to 61 on the main lake.

I have already got to learn so much on watching fish movements this year. Were so fortunate with the early spring.

Our northern lakes will be proably pre-spawn & spawn going in full swing.

[mnbass2002]

to imbass

i have a friend who is from texas and my sponsors has a group 6-8 guys who go down in march afrter the sportshow every year and they slaughter the bass. dec-mar is slow down south just look at the tourney results then look at the results when spring/fall arrives the fishing is great. read the articles watch the shows and the tourney guys have 20-30 fish days. i agree we have to protect the spawn thats why it is open later and canada doesn't open till june thats because the spawn is later. now here is a question to you the river has no closed season (redwing and down) the dnr is not protecting the spawn but the fishing is only getting better!! explain that to me?

[Jim W]

WHere are we at with this discussion??

Keep the rods bendin'!!!

Jim W

[say_der]

Ahhh... If moral quandries were money, there'd be some millionaires running around here.

Catching "untargeted" fish is unavoidable. Being OK with pulling 3 or 4 bass out of a hole while supposedly fishing for northerns is a misguided philosophy.

Couple of things to ponder:

Our judgments judge us, and nothing reveals us, exposes our weaknesses, more ingeniously than the attitude of pronouncing upon our fellows.
--Paul Valery

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced
beyond doubt that they are right." - Laurens Van der Post

[Aquaman01]

Nice quotes, Say_der!

Hey, I'm guilty. I was panfishing a nice hole from shore, catching lil' sunnies and hoping for some eaters when a nice bass (3lb+) hit my 1/2 crawler & glass bead on the bottom. I got her in, snapped a shot, put her back, and then told my little boy to cast at the hole again, but a leeeeetle to the left. He got a bass, too. Same drill. After he had the thrill of it, I moved us to a new hole with less ideal bass-bedding habitat, and as it happens, bigger sunnies.

Before this comes up, I never fish sunnies in shallows with a bobber. Just isn't my preference.

Did I tell my son it wasn't bass season yet? Yes. Did I tell him we were poaching and unethical? No. My boy caught a nice fish, all by himself. That's what mattered.

2002 -
Maybe it was the sight of yer big pretty bass boat that set him off

------------------
Aquaman
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Peace and Fishes

[Guest]

"Catching "untargeted" fish is unavoidable. Being OK with pulling 3 or 4 bass out of a hole while supposedly fishing for northerns is a misguided philosophy."

Yeah, I think you should shoot for more than 3 or 4, this is the pre-spawn bite yeah know.

Seriously, tonight I was fishing again mostly for crappies when it came to my attention that fish were hitting on top. My bobber landed and was engulfed by a bass or pike and was quickly ejected. I switched over to a small topwater popper hoping I might score crappie, pike, and yes a few bass. I didn't get a crappie on the popper, but before it got dark I got 5 pike and 5 bass including a pigged out egg laden 18" female. I just as easily could have had that fish hit the Mini Mite cubby and actually lost one nice fish on it.

Now was I "supposedly fishing for northerns" or was I really fishing for bass? The truth is I wouldn't have cared if one of the carp swiming around rolled on the poppper. I just wanted anything to smack that popper, one small sunfish even did. Those who would try and say what I was doing was wrong are the ones with a misguided philosophy. The pike strikes were actually more spectacular than the bass. The pike were really whacking it. My only regret is that I didn't start throwing the popper right after my bobber was savagely attacked; I wasted 20 minutes of sunlight catching small sunnies and my only crappie while the gamefish were popping minnows on the surface all over the bay.

Note: This lake (Platte) is hammerhandle heaven and the pike inhabit all the "bassy" looking water at all times of the year; I have caught more than a few of them off matted vegitation with scum frogs and I hesitate to ever fish jigs in the lake because it will get bit off sooner rather than later.

[This message has been edited by Basspastor (edited 05-14-2003).]

[Guest]

Earlier question:
"My question is i never seen the dnr so i could not prove my case so can i still get in trouble?"

Technically any of us who catch a bass or don't catch a bass for that mater could get into trouble because the notion of "targeting" is so vague. If a CO wanted they could issue anyone and everyone a citation before all seasons are open especially if they see you catch just one of the non open species. Fortunatly, I think most if not all CO's hold off on issueing a citation for "targeting out of season" unless it is a gross violation; like throwing a muskie plug or bass spinnerbait during pre-"openner." From my understanding most CO's will just give a warning and maybe ask the person to throw a different lure even if they are throwing jigs and plastics now. Once the "Openner" passes they have enough sense to know that the legal pike can be caught on anything and because of that the door of "reasonable doubt" in court is swung wide open. It is a offense that is nearly unconvictable if the citation is challenged.

What a wonderful law that could be used to charge everyone, but could convict no one! (But it gives some people something to feel morally indignat about, even if that indignation is illogical in terms of real on the water fishing experience.)

[Guest]

catching "untargeted" fish is quite unavoidable as I found out 2 weekends ago while out for the first time of the open water season....St.Louis River-Forbes Dam...I was actually looking for red horse suckers(grind em up for fish patties)and was using night crawlers(plain hook with lead slip sinker)...first cast of the season...3 1/2 pound northern...2nd cast..another northern....same size...3rd cast...a 5 pound northern...go figure!......those notherns apparently were "stacked up" like cord wood just below the dam a hundred yards or so...I caught 7 northerns in about an hour and a half...yes ...i caught a few red horse in between...but more northerns(all released unharmed)...apparently northerns like night crawlers...lol...just another example of untargeted fish...certainly was fun though!...jon

[Toad]

Guess we could argue the "targeting" issue ad infinitum, but the only real issue that matters (far as I'm concerned) is the harassment of bedding or late stage prebedding bass. We all incidentally or otherwise pop bass before the season opens. It's unavoidable. Ninety-nine percent of us release 'em-- shoot, most of us nowadays also release most bass during the legal season. Not a problem.

The main reason the DNR keeps the closed season in place, as is, can be attributed to the relatively short (and well-defined) time period during which our bass spawn. Take our relatively short spawning phase in contrast to a southern state like Florida, whose bass spawn all during a several month period-- often, January all the way into June and beyond. Anglers targeting beds and spawning bass can't hit all the fish because different segments of the population spawn during varying periods. (It's also nature's way of protecting the population from other predators, including egg eating species.)

For this reason, northern fisheries remain far more fragile, as the majority of bass in a given system occupy beds during very similar time periods. This makes targeting beds (for anglers as well as natural predators) a very simple task, an anticipated task.

Sure we can talk about various studies that show open seasons don't harm quality or quantity of bass fisheries. Perhaps the studies are even vaild. But if Minnesota or Wisconsin or Iowa contained as many bass anglers as a state like Florida, perhaps the studies would yield different results. Fact remains, harassing or removing a bass from it's bed instantly and significantly reduces the chances that new bass will be added to the population. Temporarily removing a bass (from a bed) during a tournament is no different. A bass taken off a bed hasn't really been caught in the strictest sense, anyway. (Sorry, just some editorializing .)

Florida continues to rebuild its previously fantastic bass fishery after decades of unchecked bed fishing. In the midst of something that we know keeps our bass fishery healthy, why even consider something like a catch-and-release season during the spawn? Minnesota's bass fishery remains one of the hottest in the U.S.. There's a reason this is so.

-a friend,
Cory Schmidt

[Duffman]

Hey Toad!
I'm in your boat on this one. Good luck fishing.

[Toad]

Basspastor,

It's not the truth that northern bass spawn in rapid succession relative to southern bass? Please tell me what's been said that isn't true.

I agree that during some years, bass might not finish spawning until after the legal season opens, but to me, all that does is compell an argument for a later opener date, not an earlier one. (Don't misunderstand, I'm not advocating we do this.) Just as I'm sure you're at least in part right about Wisconsin-- that is, a closed season doesn't protect spawning bass. My point is, bedding bass still need protection-- for spawntime offers an all-too-easy shot at the largest bass in any fishery, as these bass also serve to perpetuate the fishery.

I also agree, by the way, that the key to sustaining quality fisheries remains habitat, and to some extent, water quality. As we know, though, fishing pressure is an "X" factor, a virtual wild card in the equation. We both know that habitat and water quality alone, however, won't save a fishery, any fishery, from overharvest. Heck, if portions of the Pacific Ocean don't offer a prime example, I don't know what does.

Thing is, I'm not even against fishing for bass during springtime, I'm just against targeting bedding bass. Whether or not you're releasing these fish is, to me, really almost irrelevant. But this is just my opinion.

I'm certainly not trying to bamboozle anyone with a "convincing sounding" argument that, in fact, is talk. Overall, I doubt we're real far apart here. All I was saying, originally is, we know that fishing for spawning bass can hurt. We also know that closing the season doesn't. Enjoy your fishing.

-a friend,
Cory

[Guest]

"It's not the truth that northern bass spawn in rapid succession relative to southern bass? Please tell me what's been said that isn't true."

The compacted spawn in the north is true, but the fact is the closed season was implimented arbitarily not to protect spawning and bedding bass. To say the closed season is to protect the spawn is inaccurate even though it is the common reason given. It may "protect" some but certainly never covers all and some years covers few if any. The fact of when the season is closed and then openned exposes this point.

"All I was saying, originally is, we know that fishing for spawning bass can hurt..."

This has been studied extensively and the results show harm in only few cases, with no negative effect in the vast majority. It indeed "can hurt", but usually doesn't and with largemouth I think there is no evidence whatsoever for a demonstrated negative impact for Catch and Release fishing of bedding bass with numerous studies concluded.

"...We also know that closing the season doesn't (hurt)"
But if it doesn't help or protect the bedding bass than what is the use except to drive some of us to WI?

[Guest]

Toad- Your argument sounds convincing, ,maybe even compelling, but from what I have read on the issues involved the arguments really are not grounded in the truth.

"In the midst of something that we know keeps our bass fishery healthy, why even consider something like a catch-and-release season during the spawn?"

Because the FACT is that on many bodies of water (Deeper and Clear), and in cold Spring's all bodies of water, most if not all bass will spawn at or after when the bass season is open. The closed season really does not protect the bedding bass. In WI where the bass fishing is ever bit as good as MN if not better this is undisputable. As a bass fisherman I know it is not uncommon to see fish guarding the nest in mid-June.

On Sylvia/Twin, the lake which I am most familiar and one of the states most prolific bass lakes in terms of numbers of fish, the heaviest spawn occurs right around June 1st. The real secret to good bass lakes is what it has been and will always be, good habitat and water quality; All the fishing pressure in the world will hardly put a dent in fisheries with the right habitat and water quality.