Deer Management Meetings Announced

[KEN W]

Deer Management Meetings Announced

The State Game and Fish Department has scheduled eight public meetings in February to discuss deer management in North Dakota.

Department officials will present an overview of the current deer population and prospects for the future, and look for input on possible options for changes in the way deer licenses are allocated.

“We’re all aware that the state’s whitetail and mule deer populations have declined considerably in recent years,” said Game and Fish Department wildlife chief Randy Kreil. “In 2013 we had approximately 40,000 hunters who applied for a deer gun license and didn’t get one. We’re looking at some ideas that might help get more hunters in the field if deer populations remain similar to what they are now.”

In the long term, Kreil said Game and Fish’s strategy is to build deer numbers to a point that would provide a reasonable chance for anyone who wants to hunt to be able to get some kind of license. “Right now we have a high public interest in deer hunting in North Dakota,” he said. “We’re hoping to come up with some solutions to help us maintain that.”

Each meeting will begin at 7 p.m. local time.

Feb. 17 – Devils Lake, Lake Region Community College Auditorium

Feb. 17 – Casselton, City Fire Hall

Feb. 18 – Dickinson, Ramada Grand Dakota Lodge

Feb. 18 – Anamoose, Community Center

Feb. 24 – Tioga, Farm Festival Building

Feb. 24 – Fordville, Community Center

Feb. 25 – Bismarck, North Dakota Game and Fish Department

Feb. 25 – Jamestown, The Bunker

[Scoot]

Thanks for posting, Ken. I bet there'll be some wriled up people at the meetings this year! I read an article by the NDG&F that was really interesting. I think they've got some interesting, and probably reasonable, ideas about how to address the people's concerns and try make the most of what the state has to offer for deer hunting.

[KEN W]

Here is some info the GNF put out before the last Advisory meetings.If they implement these things some hunters will have to make a hard choice.

Future License Distribution Options

With deer populations at levels hunters haven’t seen in decades, Kreil said one of the questions agency officials receive from hunters is, if the deer population remains at low levels, and the demand for deer gun hunting licenses can’t be met, will the Department consider changes to how licenses are distributed?

“People ask if it’s time for a deer management approach that would allow one deer license per person per year, regardless of whether they choose to use a gun, bow or muzzleloader?” Kreil said. “We have been discussing that concept for the last three years.”

For instance, under the current format, anyone who applies in the regular deer gun season license lottery can also apply for a second license in the muzzleloader season lottery, and also purchase an archery license.

No firm proposals are on the table yet, but under any potential future system, Kreil said Game and Fish would like to maintain the statewide either sex/species archery license option for residents. However, that could mean a tradeoff of sorts, where a hunter who opted for a statewide archery license could not also have a deer gun or muzzleloader license.

For the second year in a row in 2013, the Game and Fish Department did not issue any mule deer doe licenses in eight hunting units in the badlands.

At 140,000 deer licenses, Kreil said, the additional deer harvest from archery and muzzleloader hunters was not an overriding factor in setting deer license numbers. At the same time, while not everyone could get a buck license in the unit they preferred, there were more than enough licenses so everyone who wanted to hunt deer could get one.

In the last two years, that situation has changed dramatically. In 2013, North Dakota had about 40,000 applicants in the deer gun lottery who did not get a license.

“If we were to move toward one deer license per hunter,” Kreil said, “it would allow us to offer more licenses in the deer gun lottery, which would mean more people would get a chance to hunt. We still wouldn’t be able to accommodate everyone, but we would improve somewhat the odds for drawing a license.”

[Scoot]

“If we were to move toward one deer license per hunter,” Kreil said, “it would allow us to offer more licenses in the deer gun lottery, which would mean more people would get a chance to hunt. We still wouldn’t be able to accommodate everyone, but we would improve somewhat the odds for drawing a license.”

Personally, I'm in favor of this. I can't see some guys getting to shoot three deer and others not pulling their tag of choice and not hunting at all (by choice to some extent, but still it'd keep some from hunting).

Ken, I know you and I haven't seen eye to eye on a lot of these issues, but I'm curious about your thoughts on the one license proposal? I'm also curious about the general level of approval of this approach from the state as a whole.

[harvey lee]

Few more easier winters and noone will be concerned about the licenses as they can all have one.

One does not have to go back to many years when the Game and Fish could not give away all the licenses for deer that they wanted harvested. I remeber not long ago in 2G1 a guy could have just about as many licenses as he was willing to pay for. Now the herd is down and now we need to change the rules.

Few bad winters and now let's cut the licenses back.

MY guess, in a few years, we will be overrun with deer in my area. They are coming back nicely and I see no need to panic and start to cut licenses here and there.

AS a non res it truely does not matter what I think but I am just saying, wait a few more years and all will be fine.

The GNF should never have allowd to cut the herd like they did 6-10 years ago. You allow hunters to shoot up everything and then a few hard winters and here we are.

[KEN W]

Scoot,

As of now I would favor this approach.But that is easy for me since I don't bow or muzzle hunt.The ones who do will just have to choose.I do agree with Harvey in that the deer will come back somewhat.I say that because of all the CRP that isn't here anymore.

Unless that changes we won't ever see 150,000 rifle tags available.But 40,000 rifle hunters not being able to get at least a tag makes this idea at least something to consider.The GNf can always make changes in the future if and when the deer herd goes back up.

[KEN W]

Scoot,

As of now I would favor this approach.But that is easy for me since I don't bow or muzzle hunt.The ones who will just have to choose.I do agree with Harvey in that the deer will come back somewhat.I say that because of all the CRP that isn't here anymore.

Unless that changes we won't ever see 150,000 rifle tags available.But 40,000 rifle hunters not being able to get at least a tag makes this idea at least something to consider.The GNf can always make changes in the future if and when the deer herd goes back up.

Since one of the meetings is only 10 miles from me,I will be there.

[harvey lee]

I do not believe the GNF will ever allow the deer herd to get to the numbers of ten years ago. Simply to many deer for the habitat and it will keep the crop damage and road kills lower. I thought I heard R Kriel state this about a year or two ago. If they decide to go to one tag per year, really would not effect me that much as Nr pull very few gun tags.

[Scoot]

Yep, I think you are both spot on.

[KEN W]

There will be no changes made until 2015.GNF wants lots of public input before deciding what if anything to do.They had a list of about 10 things to look at.The meeting I was at had about 100 people there or so.

From the suggestions made,it sounded like most favored 1 deer tag per person.Use whatever weapon you want during that season.Bow would be the same as now.Rifle and muzzy,you would choose a zone.Everyone would apply at the same time,no over the counter.

[Scoot]

Thanks for the update, Ken- I was wondering about this earlier today!

[KEN W]

Oh yeah......one other thing.....all licenses and applications will now have to have a drivers license number on them.They want proof you are a resident.Probably something else if you are to young to drive.

Of course the bow hunters don't want any changes at all.

The lottery numbers are now available on the GNF HSOforum.

C:\Users\KEN\AppData\Local\Temp\february_2014.pdf

I will have to seriously look at if I want to keep applying for a mule deer buck tag.6 years of apps before it even gets to a 50-50 chance.By then I probably will be to old to go to the badlands.

Also it most likely means no deer hunting till I get drawn,since there are not enough doe tags available in the unit here for even the first draw.

[Scoot]

Of course the bow hunters don't want any changes at all.

You can't lump all bowhunters into that category, Ken. Of the dozen or so bowhunters I've asked about this, they all think it'd be a good idea to make hunters choose one tag. This includes strictly bowhunters and some guys who shoot rifle, muzzy, and bow.

[harvey lee]

Doesn't bother me one bit if they go to 1 tag even if I am mainly a archer. Yes, I gun hunt and ML hunt also but rarely as the chance of pulling a tag is slim to none so if they change it, really makes zero difference.

To be honest, all this is really about is some are bothered that they do not pull a tag every season so let's change the rules so maybe I have a better chance.

I wait years for a rifle tag in ND as a NR and as far as pulling a ML tag, well that's not quite a once in a lifetime but close. My archery license I can buy over the counter and if they want to change that, that's fine if I do not get a deer tag, there are plenty of states that will take my money. There is always a place to hunt.

I wonder what some are going to do if this changes and then they still do not get a tag? Change more rules?? With this hard winter going the way it is, we could see less in tags agin soon unless we get some softer winters and then the loss od crp will hurt also.

I do not believe ND will ever again see those years with the high deer herd as they will not let that happen as thiere was too much crop damage and roadkill.

Was not that many years ago and the G&F had more deer tags than they knew what to do with and could not give them all away. Then a few tough winters and the deer herd is way down, a few have to go without a license and then the crying starts.

Geez, just wait a few years and the deer population will rebound and then those license's will become available again in larger number's.

Yes, as a NR hunter in North Dakota I also get effected by these changes in deer populations as when the tags go down in number, so do my chances at a license for rifle and muzzleloader except for the over the counter archery deer tag.

If I do not get a tag in ND, oh well, off to Wisc or somewhere else.

[KEN W]

Scoot.....the bow hunters at the meeting I was at didn't want any changes.

NR bow hunter tags would go down a lot.They would then become part of the 1% available to NR.Not sure about the NR any deer tags.They are 15% of the previous years mule deer buck tags.Obviously one of those would have to change.

In the short term....they need to make changes.As the GNF said,they can always go back to what it is now.

Harvey.....good points.Kreil said with the loss of CRP the deer herd will never go back to those high numbers.He said most fawns are born in CRP.

[harvey lee]

It would not suprise me at all if they went to NR archery tags to the 1% like the rifle tags. That will all but elimante NR archers but from I have been told, they really do not care. Got that right from the head Game & Fish guy years ago when I asked him why they did not open up more tags for NR hunters when they could not get ride of all the tags. I said look at the revenue you lose when they tags go unused and his response to me, we do not need the money.

I highly doubt that it will free up many tags with the few NR archery hunters that archery hunt in North Dakota.

I am also sure the main reason for this is so many do not like that the NR archers can get a tag every year if they are willing to cough up the $250 for that tag.

I know years ago, maybe 12-14 or so, I got my rifle tags through a guide as they get a percentage of the 1% to NR rifle hunters. Well that game changed again when they loosened up the guide requirement's so many landowner's in ND could get them for thier NR children. Now the landowner or rancher has access to these tags and the NR hunter could hardly get one even if you were willing to pay the average fee of $500 which was charged to get that tag from a guide.

In the long run, ND is trying to elimante any NR hunters period as a few Resident hunters have to go without. That's what alot of this is really about. To back what I stated up, the fee's has increased right along over the years, guide requirement's has changed to the R landowners can get those tags which in the end elimanate's the NR hunter and now put the archery tags from over the counter ro the 1% like the rifle or ML tags.

Yes, ND can do what they would like in regards to how they allow NR hunters to have the chance to hunt in thier state and many of these rule changes are doing just that.

Have to say, I had a good run of hunting in ND for the past 28 years but that look's like this will be the end to that hunting with the proposed law changes.

If some were a bit more patient, they would see the numbers will rebound as they have went up and down in the past 28 years that I have hunted deer in ND. I remember when I could get 1 license in ND per year, then the herd got so large and one could buy almost what you wanted for deer tags. Now back to the lower end and yes, they will rebound again to a larger herd. This happens in every state depending on how hard the winter was,wet springs and good or poor fawning success and the farm program. Those 3 will decide from year to year what the deer herd size is in any of the snowbelt deer hunting states.

The loss of CRP in our area really does not affect the deer population at all. We have alot of river bottom and the National grasslands for the deer to live, next to no CRP in our area and there has not been much for CRP at all over the years. Now, I am sure some areas of the state have alot of CRP acrea's and I can see how that would affect those area's for sure.

With that said, will the tag numbers change in the years the deer rebound, why of course but I can honestly say you will never see the NR tags increase if the herd goes up except for the increase in the 1% in regards to tags available if the herd size increases. Those are just facts from the past years.

Scoot, as a MN resident now, I can see you archery hunting about once every 3-4 years if they implement the proposed 1% for NR archery tags, good thing you travel as much as you do to hunt as you more than likely will not be archery hunting much at all anymore in ND. Very tough to pull a tag at 1% of the licenses available unless you have a rabbit foot in your pocket. UNless all the NR archers say to the heck with ND.

Again, I guess one just goes to Wisc or another state where a NR is still welcome.

Not looking to argue, just saying what I have seen over the years in regards to the NR being able to hunt in ND.

[Scoot]

In the long run, ND is trying to elimante any NR hunters period as a few Resident hunters have to go without. That's what alot of this is really about.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with Tom that is clearly part of this. It is, though, part of an attempt to get the numbers closer to where they should be. I'm sure Tom is right- they'll never make it back to where they were. Hopefully the proposed changes can help a few nice years along to get things in a better place. I love ND and I love hunting there. I sure hope I can hunt there in the future. I'm likely just not as mature or level-headed as Tom, but my attitude isn't like his about hunting somewhere else- I'd be much more upset than he sounds like he'd be if I don't get to hunt in the great state of ND. If I can't, obviously I'll deal with it, but that'd stink.

[harvey lee]

I am not happy about this at all Scoot, just nothing I can do about it as a NR. I have talked TO many G&F people about the NR tags but since I do not vote in ND and the ones in ND who are going without once in awhile are going without and they vote, I can honestly say the voters will get exactly what they want 100% and the NR is left with about nothing.

You will soon see Scott as I stated above, your chances at a NR tag if the proposed 1% is implemented, you also will be a looker and wisher about deer hunting in ND.

I have enjoyed many good years in ND, made many good friends while hunting there and now that will all come to an end due to the fact that the NR will not be able to get a tag except for every 3-5 years as that is how the rifle tags work at the 1%. I know amny ranchers, business people and like I said, have some very good friens in ND. Heck, I met you Scoot due to my hunting in ND. That will now all come to about the end as waiting every 3-4 or 5 years for a atg is not acceptable to me, I can go elsewhere even though it will cost me alot more for lodging and such.

I can hunt in Mn as I did l;ast fall and shoot my deer but it is not the same for me as going to ND hunting as that is what I have doine for so many years and I am sure I am not the only NR is that boat.

I have a friend up the road a way who has hunted with our group for 28 years and I saw his young daughters grow up and start to deer hunt. Now, with the proposed new rules, they will be hunting without us.

[KEN W]

Harvey.....what unit do you hunt in?

Not sure how they would be able to go to 1% for all tags.Besides that is through the legislature.So is the 15% for bow mule deer buck tags.They would have to change it,not the GNF.I think that's why no changes this coming season.The legislature meets again in Jan. 2015.If the deer herd stays down it will be interesting to see what comes through the legislature.Maybe nothing.

One thing of note is that people with out of state kids will scream if NR tags get so restrictive.

Don't be so down Harvey.Nothing has changed yet,and it may not.The archery tags are the big question mark.

As far as guides getting NR tags.....they get 100 of the 1% buck tags and no one can get more than 5.Those sell for around $2,000 for a 5 day hunt.That also is state law.If G/O apply for more than 100,there is a lottery for them.I am not aware of landowners who don't have a G/O license getting any of them.

GNF also talked about the number of tags for NR landowners.They also count against the 1% in a unit.They said as I've said for a long time,that in some units NR landowners take all the tags before the lottery starts.Especially the mule deer tags.In those units in the badlands,NR are applying for tags with zero chance of getting them.

[UMC]

I think Game and Fish does a good job. They don't control the amount of habitat on the ground nor the winters. When there's lots of deer, lots of tags should be issued because with the winters we can have they can be wiped out quickly, so we might as well enjoy it while we can (like we did in the mid-2000s). It doesn't work to bank wildlife in ND.

[harvey lee]

"As far as guides getting NR tags.....they get 100 of the 1% buck tags and no one can get more than 5.Those sell for around $2,000 for a 5 day hunt.That also is state law.If G/O apply for more than 100,there is a lottery for them.I am not aware of landowners who don't have a G/O license getting any of them."

Well, the guide I use to get my NR whitetail buck rifle tags sold them to use for $250.00, not the $2,000 you speak of but I am sure some guides do charge that much. If the guides reciebved 100% of the 1% for NR, then there would be no tags for the NR through the lottery. I have not purchased through a guide for a few years and I am sure some got very greedy with those tags and raped the NR hunter.

I agree you have to be a guide or outfitter to get any of the 1% NR tags other than the ones that are left for the NR lottery.. I was told by the guide I got my tags from that they could only get a percentage of the 1%, not all of them as some are kept for the NR lottery. I have pulled some of those NR lottery tags, only way I can get one without going through a guide.

Then you stated that

NR bow hunter tags would go down a lot.They would then become part of the 1% available to NR.

If that were to happen in the next legislative session next Jan and more than likely would happen if suggested by the G&F, it would be very hard for a NR to pull a tag, very hard. No different than pulling a tag through the NR rifle 1% now.

What I am trying to say is this, if a 1% NR limit is placed on the NR archery tags, how will the NR even get a NR archery tag when they are so restricted? They did this with the rifle and Muzzleloader tags and our group is lucky if we even pull 1 rifle tag per year for the 5 of us. That is not very good odd's in my eyes as a NR.

Only way this will not happen is if the G&F does not propose this change or the legislature goes agaiinst what the G&F wants. The Residents will put enough pressure on thier elected officials to vote yes on the 1% NR archery tags and they will have no choice but to vote for the 1% change.

I do not know how many residents who have told me that they should get 2 or more licenses before I should be able to purchase 1, I guess they have thier idea's and rights to say what they wish.

Ken, we hunt in 2G1, the zone just north of the Sheyenne Nat Grassland's along the Sheyenne river and it goes east to about Hwy 18 and then the zone changes. It's about 10 miles west of the town of Kindred and then south of Hwy 46.

Let's be very honest, the deer population will take a hit this winter and if we have a wet spring during fawning, it could only get worse. If they go to the 1% for NR archery tags like you posted, the NR archery hunter will hunt at best, like once every 3-5 years depending on how lucky he is in the lotteries. That's how it is now with the 1% for the NR rifle and ml tags.

I do not see if they implement the 1% how else a NR would get a license for a bow, rifle or muzzleloader.

[Scoot]

I think Game and Fish does a good job.

I totally agree! I think they have a very tough job and do very well with it.

[Scoot]

Tom, all great points and info. Like you, I've been very lucky to enjoy the opportunities I've had in ND. I haven't hunted for all that long in ND, but I've loved every minute of it. I'd sure like to have more of it than just once every handful of years in the future. Time will tell...

[harvey lee]

I would agree that they have done a fine job in regards to the deer herd mgmt. my biggest concern is that if they were to restrict the Nr archery tags to the 1percent like the rifle tags I will be archery hunting very little. I understand every resident wants a tag every year but would they really have to dump on the NR like what could get proposed ? If implemented, I really wonder how many more resident hunters will get a tag if they did the NR tags for archery like they do the rifle tags ? I cannot believe that many nr archers purchase Nr archery tags.

[Scoot]

Yep, I have no doubt that's true, Tom. I'd be curios of the actual numbers on this. Regardless of numbers, I think this is driven by frustration and perceptions of fairness. Maybe more so than good management principles, IMO.

That being said, I continue to think the job the ND G&F has done is something for many states to model themselves after. MN, in particular, should take a closer look...