"Balancing" a tire+wheel without a balancer?

[Whoaru99]

Ok, technically it's probably not considered balancing, more like rudimentary matching the high spot of the wheel with low spot of the tire (or vice versa).

There are no high/low marks on the tire nor wheel.

Would you mark the relationship of the tire to wheel and then change it 180 degrees or would you do 90 degrees change?

[Jeremy airjer W]

Um........WHAT?

[Whoaru99]

Just what I asked.

From Bridgestone-

Quote:

What Do These Marks Stand For?

In a perfect world, you'd have perfectly round, perfectly balanced tires, mounted on perfectly round, perfectly balanced wheels, attached to perfectly straight, perfectly true-running axles.

But in the real world, nothing is perfect. No matter how hard manufacturers work to eliminate them, there are always variations in tires, wheels, hubs, bolts, axles, and every other part of a wheel end assembly.

And even if they come out of the factory in near-perfect condition, wear, damage, improper installation or poor maintenance can negate the manufacturer's efforts.

These variations can create what are called radial and lateral force fluctuations. Those are fancy words, but the result of either one can be ride disturbance, rapid wear, irregular wear — or all three.

Careful tire mounting using these marks can help you minimize these problems.

Some Of My Tires Have Red Dots. What Are They For?

When a tire spins, the amount of force it exerts against the road varies. In severe cases, the result can be a rough ride and wear problems. One reason the force can vary may be that the tire isn't perfectly round. It has "high" spots and "low" spots. (There are also lots of other reasons, which we'll explore in future issues of Real Answers.)

The difference between the high and the low is called radial runout. Using sophisticated computer analysis, Bridgestone engineers have found that a graph of the force variations looks a bit like a wave, as does a graph of the runout variations.

By simplifying the graphs to what is called their "first harmonic," it's possible to find the place on the tire where, on average, the force variation is greatest. That's where the first harmonic curve hits its high point.

And, it turns out that the first harmonic high point for the radial runout coincides pretty well with the first harmonic high point for radial force variation.

Now, wheels, especially steel wheels, tend to have the same kind of high and low spots as tires. In fact, many steel wheels are marked with a dimple that indicates their low spot.

So, if you could match the high point on the tire to the low point on the wheel, these forces would, to some extent at least, cancel each other, and you'd expect to get a smoother ride and maybe improved wear.

The problem is, neither the tires nor the steel wheels have any high/low spot marks. So, without them and the means to physically measure it, I'm asking if you think rotating 180 degrees or 90 degrees would be the right approach to try minimizing radial runout and resultant tire+wheel radial force variation.

[delcecchi]

Rotating 90 or 180 from what starting position? How do you find the high and low spots? From the writeup and common sense it is clear you want the high spot on the tire to line up with the low spot on the wheel. Then it will require minimum weight to balance.

[Whoaru99]

Starting from the positions where they currently exist relative to each other on the as-mounted tire+wheel assemblies.

The point is, I have no way to measure it other than seat of the pants. So, in order to ascertain if radial runout can be improved I propose to change the relationship of the exiting setup by either 180 or 90 degrees and am wondering if you think one is preferred over the other.

I understand it's basically a crapshoot either way, but let's not let that stop us from speculating if 90 degrees change or 180 degrees change would be a more better ( ) crapshoot.

[delcecchi]

How many times are you prepared to remount? Whether you move 90 or 180 I don't think makes any difference, since the starting position is random.

Let's say the best orientation is 0 degrees. The current position is a random number between 0 and 360. If you add 90 or 180 to the random number you get another random number between 0 and 360.

But if you are able to tell how much the balance changes then I would say 90 or even 45. If it gets better do another 45. If it gets worse go back 90.

The problem with 180 is you don't know where to go next.

Or you could just find the heavy spot on bare wheel and the heavy side of the tire... or go to the tire place and get the assembly balanced.

Seems like a lot of work to save a few bucks. What's this for?

[Surface Tension]

Jack up the vehicle(tire side in question).

Jimmy Rig yourself a dial indicator.

Rotate the tire and mark the high side.

Now do the same to the rim and mark the low side.

Compare the two references.

While your at it check for a bulge somewhere.

[Jeremy airjer W]

I guess my question is why are you pondering this?

I think you got this from the "truck" tire section. Heavy truck steel wheels will have a dimple. If they do not than the red dot if there is a red and yellow, or the yellow dot if there is just a yellow gets lined up with the valve stem.

As far as I know the dot is always lined up as best as possible with the valve stem on a passenger or light truck tire.

Matching the dots is not a substitute for balancing but it does give you the best start. If there are no longer any color dots on the tire than just balance the tire. After all balancing the tire "balances" the tire.

[Whoaru99]

How many times are you prepared to remount?

I propose only once, because this is basically the last thing on the list. It's not a normal thing so I'm going on the assumption that it's probably worst case alignment of the stars, so to speak. Or close to it anyway so I think I'm going with 180 degrees.

If that doesn't do it then it'll have to be the yet undetermined plan D.

[Whoaru99]

Jack up the vehicle(tire side in question).

Jimmy Rig yourself a dial indicator.

Rotate the tire and mark the high side.

Now do the same to the rim and mark the low side.

Compare the two references.

While your at it check for a bulge somewhere.

I understand how to do it the right way, but you'll just have to accept that the right way isn't an option and it doesn't matter at this point why the right way isn't an option. Suffice to say it just isn't.

Tire "experts" have already looked at the tires and proclaim them A-OK, but that doesn't surprise me.

That's why the question (s).

[Whoaru99]

I guess my question is why are you pondering this?

I think you got this from the "truck" tire section. Heavy truck steel wheels will have a dimple. If they do not than the red dot if there is a red and yellow, or the yellow dot if there is just a yellow gets lined up with the valve stem.

As far as I know the dot is always lined up as best as possible with the valve stem on a passenger or light truck tire.

Matching the dots is not a substitute for balancing but it does give you the best start. If there are no longer any color dots on the tire than just balance the tire. After all balancing the tire "balances" the tire.

No markings at all on either the tire or the wheel. I've seen various marks in the past. These have none.

I have decided to go with 180 degress on the assumption the situation is worst case, so 180 degrees is then best to put radial runout at minimum.

It's nice to have all the facts but in this case it's simply a matter of the best SWAG available course of action with very little to work with.

Yes, I'm being quite obscure but who, what, when, where, and why really don't matter as to the bottom line of do you think 180 or 90 would be better. It's a foregone conclusion it will be one or the other, and the other is now decided to be 180.