Marine radio usage

[Savage Brewer]

I know that marine radio can be used for boat to boat comms, along with communicating with the USCG.

So here is what I am trying to figure out, can marine band be used for communicating at the ramp with your tow vehicle?

Here are a couple scenarios, at the ramp, the line is 10 cars deep and I am in the boat waiting to load and go home, can I use Marine band to communicate with my wife or whoever is driving my truck, being that I am on water?

Also when my wife is backing in she needs some assistance and I need to tell her instructions so we can load and or unload safely.

Both of these cases I would be using the frequencies for marine purposes.

Just wondering, as I seem to go through about one set of FRS radios every year for this purpose, so I am tempted to buy a marine handheld and just leave that up in the truck.

And after fumbling a cell phone into the lake I dont want to that either. Replacing smartphones is too expensive.

[CAMAN]

Are you asking if it is legal? As long as you are only hailing someone on CH16 then moving to a secondary channel it should not be an issue. Even if it isn't legal the chances of the "Marine Band Police" finding you is pretty slim. Especially if you keep your chatter to a minimum.

The distance and talk quality will be hampered though the more obstructions (such as trees and buildings) that are between you and whoever you are talking with. Also most handhelds have a considerably lower power output than console mounted units with large antennas. So if she is using a handheld and you are using a console unit and the distance and obstructions are too much she may be able to hear you, but you may not hear her.

[Shack]

Quote:

So here is what I am trying to figure out, can marine band be used for communicating at the ramp with your tow vehicle?

Yes it can.

[Savage Brewer]

Distance would be short, maybe 500 yards, 1000 yards at most (which is like 6/10 of a mile).

And yeah we would decide on a channel before even talking, so wouldnt be using CH 16 at all.

1/2 watt FRS radios have been working for now, but being that I am going to put a marine radio in the boat, I don't see any reason to keep investing in FRS's that only last a year at most.

Plus I want a submersible floating handheld to take on kayak trips.

Looks like most handheld VHF Marine radios are either 1 watt or 5 watt, which would be more than needed to communicate under 1 mile I would think.

[Savage Brewer]

and yes I was wondering more or less if there are any legal issues with the fcc.

It looks like Channels 24 to 28, 68, 69, 71, 78 and 84 to 87 would be ok to use without [PoorWordUsage] off the USCG.

I think that should be right.

[Ufatz]

I believe current protocols require use of channel 9 as a "call up" channel and then you switch to a talk channel. Channel 9 is a nationwiede call up channel. It is true channel 16 has been the call and standby channel for years, things have changed a bit. Channel 16 is monitored by both the FCC and the USCG and they are able to easily track down radio abusers. Keep in mind that somebody's life might depend on getting through quickly on channel 16.For Pete's sake NEVER call the USCG or any other rescue agency requesting a "radio check". It is a dumb amateur trick and clogs the important channels. Call your buddy if you want a "radio check".

There are a couple little handbooks out there that will provide information on the correct and most efficient use of marine VHF. They are not toys.

Okay, my conscience is now clear.

[jentz]

On inland waters the marine bands aren't used much,They were developed for ocean going vessels.The distances mentioned aren't for real radios, are they hand held?? with little power? I have used the marine band for years,It just was effiecient with miles and miles of communcations just happened to be on salt waters not inland lakes.CB radios should be your choice,They have dropped in usage since the 70s, 80s.But do have the power and bands you may need.Not a salty radio.

[Ufatz]

Well, all I can say is the VHF radios have served well in the inland coastal waters of FL and TX and when you need help or guidance a quick call to USCG on ch.16 works quickly and well. There is no "regulation" that your VHF is only for open ocean or high seas.

Really.....if you guys are interested, there are short and simple little booklets that will tell ya all you need to know about the ins and outs of VHF communication. I'll take a nice VHF any day over a CB radio. In the hypothetic case which started the thread a simple little FRS would work just fine BUT so would a couple VHF's.....just sorta overkill. Hell, you could probably use a bullhorn and yell at your wife at those distances. Ha Ha Ha!

[Brad B]

and yes I was wondering more or less if there are any legal issues with the fcc.

It looks like Channels 24 to 28, 68, 69, 71, 78 and 84 to 87 would be ok to use without [PoorWordUsage] off the USCG.

I think that should be right.

you are correct. I just looked at the manual of my VHF radio and those channels can be used for ship to shore communication(IE : boat to tow vehicle). channel 24 to 28 & 84 to 87 are only ship to shore channels and channel 68,69, 71, & 78 for both ship to ship and ship to shore. I believe a lot of the resorts on Mille Lacs use channel 71 or 78 for their launches.

[Savage Brewer]

Ok, I will be honest Jentz here is the deal.

I am an Extra class Amateur Radio operator, and I also am a VE examiner for the ARRL to handle the testing of new Amateur Radio licensees for the FCC for almost a decade now.

I know all about using everything from 160M to microwave equipment in the 5.8Ghz range. Marine VHF is no different than HAM VHF other than you do not need a license to operate on it.

The reason I asked they guys here is the data I found on the FCC site about operating in the 156-157MHz region was not exactly clear. And being that I am a licensed amateur, I wanted to make sure I would not be breaking any regulations by doing so.

My wife and others that fish with me have no interest in amateur radio, so asking them to study for the exam and pay the costs to take the tests is not going to happen, although it would sure be handy as I have roughly 12 radios already that operate in the VHF and UHF bands, with one already permanently mounted in the truck.

VHF FM transceivers were not invented for marine specific use. It happened to be having VHF radios on ships and other vessels is handy and is needed for safety reasons. The FCC regulated a frequency allocation for marine purposes so that commercial operators wouldn't just overrun the bands.

I am putting a marine radio in for numerous reasons:

communicate with lock operators

to be able to communicate with barges if needed

to communicate with lift bridge operators

some fishing tournaments give updates over marine VHF

Some resorts monitor marine band if you need gas or services at their dock

Most marine band radios also have NOAA alerts capabilities for severe weather

and other reasons also.

CB is not the answer, CB to operate properly would need 9 foot antenna for a 1/4 wave vertical without a loading coil. Marine band only needs roughly a 20" antenna unless you are trying to reach long distances and would be looking for a 5/8 over 5/8 antenna.

Also there is the main issue, WATER, I have yet to see a submersible, waterproof CB or other radio. The FRS radios I have been using have all met their maker due to moisture at some point.

There are alot of quality waterproof radios made for the marine market.

Most marine band radios also have a user adjustable RF output, like for example the Standard Horizon (Same company as Vertex Standard for commercial radios systems, and Yaesu their amateur division) Explorer series has a selectable RF output of either 1 watt or 25 watts.

When communicating over short distances an operator if following proper guidelines would only use as much power as needed, which means you would operate on the lower power range unless more is needed.

And yeah Ufatz, I probably could yell at her. She needs help when backing up the trailer, at the ramp, and if I stood there yelling at her she would feel too embarrassed and just give up. By me using the radios to help correct her and give directions it means I am getting on and off the ramp much quicker than if I just did it all myself. And as she does it more frequently the more confident she is becoming, but like the other day, she was having a heck of a time, and just needed some coaching.

I guess I ranted a bit on that one...

[Ufatz]

Well, heck! In that case you could have just asked your cohorts in the FCC for clarification, right?

[TruthWalleyes]

Forget the radio, i chuckle a little bit everytime a husband/wife start chewing each other out at the ramps

Usually starts with someone offering the other a little advice.

[Savage Brewer]

Well, heck! In that case you could have just asked your cohorts in the FCC for clarification, right?

Unfortunately, The FCC doesn't like to respond quickly and Amateur Radio licensing is mostly handled by the ARRL and W5YI, they being amateur groups don't have much interest in the marine bands most of the time.

So I thought asking here would be much faster, which it was, as I am sure it would have been at least two weeks before the govt would respond, thats if the question didnt just find its way to the bottom of a circular bin...

[Savage Brewer]

Forget the radio, i chuckle a little bit everytime a husband/wife start chewing each other out at the ramps

Usually starts with someone offering the other a little advice.

I laugh also, but my wife wouldnt stand for it, she would just tell me to go f-off and and then my life will be a living hell for at least a couple weeks.

So talking to her over a radio means i can live at home...

[jentz]

ufatz you got it!!Maybe a troll?? Ask questions then ???Have all the answers to denigrate others??So Mr.radio whats the distance to the horizon on the ocean??Yah you can google it and give everyone all yer knowledge.Locks bridges and USCG communciations happen on CitizenBands also.Tell me just why the marine band was put into service??You can google that also but how bout a non copy paste answer?If you notice most instructins for the band you refer to are SHIP related.

[Ufatz]

Huh? Ya lost me.

[Savage Brewer]

Well jentz you kinda irritated me by assuming I was an silly-me for asking, and now I am a troll.

None of my answer is copy paste, I have years of experience with RF, period. This was not a question of technical nature, I understand completely how it works from an engineering standpoint.

My question initially should have been worded better, I was more curious about the legal definition and usage of the frequencies allocated for marine usage.

If you have ever worked with the FCC before, they don't move exactly too fast on things, and also 90% of the people there don't even know the rules or how they are interpreted. They are more or less paper pushers processing license requests, renewals and other stuff.

I am unaware that locks and bridges monitor CB, I cannot find any reference that they do on any of the guides I have downloaded that have information about the Mississippi and StCroix rivers. All of the official documents I can find reference VHF frequencies allocated for marine band radio.

Regardless there are numerous reasons why I wont put CB on my boat.

My original question was answered.

Thank you