Epoxy making "waves"

[bltbowhunter]

I've been having a little bit of trouble getting my epoxy jobs to come out perfect. I put the first coat of epoxy on a rod last night and when I looked at it this morning there were waves or bumps that you can see over the decorative butt wrap and especially bad on the 3" decal that is next to the butt wrap(Normally, you can only feel it with your fingers as you slide them up the rod, but this time it's so bad that you can actually see the "waves"). After I put the epoxy on and put it in my dryer, I sat and watched it for about 45 minutes to make sure no bubbles appeared and to make sure that I had the thread evenly covered. There were times during this process that I had to even the epoxy out as well. I was satisfied with it and then went to bed. When I looked at it this morning there were a number of consecutive High spots then low spots (peaks and valleys or waves) along the butt wrap, but it was most noticeable along the 3" decal that wraps all the way around the rod. I've had this happen before, and normally I can get it to even out with a second and even third coat but then my epoxy tends to get too thick. I was wondering what would cause this? My dryer is a batson single rod dryer with the black rubber diaphragm that holds the rod in. Do you think that the rod wasn't turning exactly true? The epoxy that I used on this one was U-40 supreme light build. I've been using the high build in the past, but wanted to try the light build to try to reduce the thickness of the epoxy covering.

~Jeremy

[JeremyCampbell]

You should go on yah@@ answers.There may be a epoxy guy on there or ask your question in the g00?le search engine box.

[bltbowhunter]

I could, but I thought that a rod building forum would have better answers.

[thatoneguy]

Shame on you for asking rod building questions in a rod building forum!

[upnorth]

Many people don't use dryers or only use them after a turning by hand for a period of time.

Thread epoxy self levels, but has more difficulty doing so when the rod is turning. If you turn it 180 degrees then let is set for a couple minutes and repeat lengthening the time between turns for about 1 hours. Right before you turn again looks for any major sags.

[bltbowhunter]

So turn it by hand 180 degrees for an hour or longer until the epoxy sets up a bit, and then put it on the dryer? Or do I just leave it off the dryer all together?

[upnorth]

I usually put in the dryer after an hour or so. But I do wait until I am confident it is not and flat.

[bltbowhunter]

Thanks for the tip! I'm going to try that tonight on my second coat. When you say, "But I do wait until I am confident it is not and flat." "Not" what?

[upnorth]

Typo! (on a conf call) I meant to say I wait until it is flat.

[clKiekhafer]

I apply my epoxy in the rod length direction while turning the blank by hand. Once it is covered with epoxy I go back over it one more time while stroking the full length on the wrap. I will let it set for about five to ten minutes until there is a good sag in the epoxy. I will then remove the excess let it set another minute or so until the epoxy fills back in. I will then turn 180 degrees every few minutes increasing time between turns until I feel confident that it is nice an flat. This might be 90 to 120 minutes. I will put in the dryer (rotator) until it is cured.

[bltbowhunter]

Those are good tips guys. Thanks! I will give that a shot.

[harvey lee]

JUst as good as Yahoo answers.

[A.W.Wolfram]

Two things I think about with your scenario.

First:

Light build epoxy is just that, Light Build, so don’t try to apply it like high build. It’s going to take a lot of coats to get a high, flat finish. This type of epoxy is extremely viscous. It’s almost like water. It has its place and time. It penetrates raw wraps for superior adhesion to the blank and fills tunnels like a pro. It releases bubbles by its self-most of the time. It works great on small diameter blanks (Ice Rods) and eliminates footballs. I sometimes use it as a priming epoxy for wraps, dec wraps and heavy duty guide installs.

One thought is that you had to much epoxy on your wraps. Like what was mentioned, lengthwise brush strokes works the best for leveling high build epoxy. Remove any pooling light build epoxy. This should be considered excess.

Second:

The rod drier. I completely disagree with hand turning a rod unless you do not have a drier. Hand turning causes sagging and footballs. Having slow turning rod drier will give you the best finish, if your drier spins to fast it can cause footballs.

In this case I don’t think your drier was an issue.

[Billy 40]

I completely disagree with hand turning a rod unless you do not have a drier. Hand turning causes sagging and footballs. Having slow turning rod drier will give you the best finish, if your drier spins to fast it can cause footballs.

I agree with this, I'm shocked at how many people hand turn and think that they get a better finish than those who use a motor that turns at the right speed. Think about what happens if you apply finish and let the rod sit still - it migrates to the center and drips. If you turn the rod before it drips, the epoxy still moved to the center. And a fast turning motor does the exact same thing.

DEcals tend to repel finish, I have an awful time coating them and I do everything I can to not use them on my rods. I don't know why more people don't post this, but it's common. Since you are going to need 2 coats anyway (more than likely), put the first coat on light. As far as teh Dec WRap goes....are you using those purple/yellow throw away brushes? I hate those things, they ar ethe worst thing you can use for applying finish and I know everyone uses them and they're like [PoorWordUsage] is he talking about. Do yourself a favor and go to an arts & crafts store and buy a pack of flat brushes, I got mine in Micheals in NY, and Joann s and Hobby Lobby in Florida had them as well - for $7 there is 15 brushes of various sizes. Use a wider brush and apply more finish with lengthwise strokes, and you'll achieve much better results. More is better...if you don't believe me do a sample wrap and POUR the epoxy on it and let it drip and look like a mess. Spread it out and let it turn - watch and see how great it comes out. Multiple thin coats you run into a problem where if the epoxy is uneven after the first coat, it gets worse as you progress and add more coats.

[upnorth]

Rod epoxy is a self leveling mixture. To self level and I am talking flat/level not just without ripples it needs time to level out. Turning it with a rotating device before it has a chance to do that will quite often give you a football effect and in some cases not allow the waves in the epoxy to level out the waves.

It all depends on what you are building and how you want it to turn out.

If I have spent 10+ hours in building and fitting a handle, wrapping guides and a nice butt wrap, an hour spent turning by hand to get a nice flat finish with my epoxy is no big deal to me.

After it is flat and setup to certain point I do put it in a dryer, but not until.

Something else to consider on everyone's building area is the same temp and climate and anyone who thinks that doesn't affect epoxy is totally mistaken. What works in someones' basement in Florida may not come close to working in a basement in Minnesota. At 65 degrees epoxy behaves a lot different than it does at 80 degrees, humidity plays a part too.

To each his own.

[clKiekhafer]

Rod epoxy is a self leveling mixture. To self level and I am talking flat/level not just without ripples it needs time to level out. Turning it with a rotating device before it has a chance to do that will quite often give you a football effect and in some cases not allow the waves in the epoxy to level out the waves.

It all depends on what you are building and how you want it to turn out.

If I have spent 10+ hours in building and fitting a handle, wrapping guides and a nice butt wrap, an hour spent turning by hand to get a nice flat finish with my epoxy is no big deal to me.

After it is flat and setup to certain point I do put it in a dryer, but not until.

Something else to consider on everyone's building area is the same temp and climate and anyone who thinks that doesn't affect epoxy is totally mistaken. What works in someones' basement in Florida may not come close to working in a basement in Minnesota. At 65 degrees epoxy behaves a lot different than it does at 80 degrees, humidity plays a part too.

I couldn't have said it better, but everyone needs to do what works for them. You can read and listen all you want, but each person will need to find out what works in their own situation and that may change given how your environment changes throughout the year.

[Billy 40]

We had this discussion on another forum a while back regarding humidity. We kind of proved it's a myth - you can mix finish and pour it into a glass of water and it will cure fine. YOu can mix it in a steamy bathroom after taking a shower, apply it in there, and there're no issues. SOmoene actually did this to prove the point. The amine blush I hear thrown around....I dont' know what that is. I do know that I apply epoxy in all sorts of temps and humidity levels and the only thing that changes is the viscocity and bubble releasing when it's colder, as well as set up time. Once it cures - it's the same

THere are no waves if you brush lengthwise, only if you apply it while it's turning and leave it like that. If I see the epoxy sagging as it's on the turner I'll move it to where it should be. I also do mostly bigger rods with larger guides than most do in here, as well as 8-12" Dec WRaps which if you hand turned you'd end up with waves unless oyu applied a light coat. If you heat the finish (which I do) too much you will get teh same waves because teh epoxy moves from where you apply it.

[clKiekhafer]

I believe the hand turning is in reference to after the finish is applied in the first 1-2 hours. I apply my finish without the use of the dryer, thus turning by hand, but applying the epoxy lengthwise.

[upnorth]

And I "kinda" believe everything I read on the web as total fact.

[Billy 40]

THat's why the guy tried to recreate the most humid conditions possible

[upnorth]

Billy ya need to actually read my post. Never said humidity would stop epoxy from curing, rather humidity and other climate will affect how it behaves and or cures. Will it cure in hot temps? yes. Will it cure in cold temps? yes. Will behave the same and cure in the same time in both? no.

Please don't read things into my posts that aren't there.

[Billy 40]

I know what you said, my point was the humidity doesn't change anything with epoxy.

[clKiekhafer]

Now boys lets play nice here.

On my last rod I did the epoxy I had a milky finish to it. I had done everything I had always done with my other rods in terms of rod prep, epoxy measuring, mixing and applying, but this time the finish just wasn't the same. I always work in my basement, but at that time we were in a very humid condition with lots of moisture in the air. My basement was showing some signs of the higher humidity even though the air conditioner was working. To cure (no pun intended)the problem I enclosed my work area in plastic and added some heat. It was really totally enclosed because there were large gabs in the corners and the top was open to the floor joists. This allowed the air to warm slightly and dry out. My epoxy finish turned out as usual, flat and shiny. So I do believe that the environment does play a role in how the final epoxy looks, because in both cases the epoxy was cured (not tacky).

[Heartman]

In many situations, wavy results are due to applying too heavy a first coat on the thread. Multiple lighter coats produce a much cleaner, even finish in almost every case.

[redneckdan]

Humidity will have an effect on the rate that epoxy chemically reacts. Any time a change is made to the environment it will change the final results, not always enough to be noticeable. Same with barometric pressure. For instance if you apply apoxy over wood early in the morning, as the day heats up the wood off gases and you have a much high potential to end up with epoxy bubbles.

Amine blush is a chemical film that develops on some epoxies under certain conditions. This film is removed with water and a mildly abrasive cleaner. If another coat is applied over the blush, ie laquer or paints, the coating will have problems drying, potentially not drying at all.