best way to back up alot of tunes?

[Kyhl]

No doubt, there is a lot of snake oil in the audiophile world.

Wire is a perfect example. There are people getting rich selling replacement power cables as well as speaker cables and interconnects. I don't buy into it. Then again, I'm using simple belden 110v stranded wire right off the spool for my speaker cables.

The hobby is full of snake oil salesmen. Another example is CD demagnetizers. And people eat this stuff up.

Green marker anyone?

On the other hand, there are differences in interconnect material and length in the turntable world. Moving magnet phono cartridges are very susceptible to pico farad changes in capacitance. So length, guage, and metal used can make a difference in a turntable.

There are people with piles of money that are willing to spend it if someone can convince them. I was looking at a high end for sale site this morning and someone was selling an interesting integrated amp, used, private party. It was part of a bedroom system that was not used. He had a picture of the item sitting on a floor mount stand that probably cost a few hundred dollars. The walls in the background were intricate paneled wood. I wouldn't even be able to afford a front door that looked like these walls. Oh, and the stereo was listed at less than half of retail, being used you know, for $7,000.

[Kyhl]

If the source is band limited to 20khz, then a 20khz wave form by definition looks like a sine wave. So, yes you are correct but also incorrect in that the components of a 20kHz triangle wave for example that make it look triangular are at multiples of 20kHz. So if you want to reproduce the 40 or 60 kHz components for some reason then you need a higher sampling frequency.

[Whoaru99]

So far as I know, few speaker cables are shielded. Speaker cables are notorious for the amount of bovine excrement used to justify charging high prices.

And I recall reading TAS or Stereophile or one of those where the guy was talking about "auditioning" some speaker cables and needing to let them "break in" for a couple weeks...

So, yes, I agree, few speaker cables are shielded.

That said, what I said of interconnect cables is true, and I'd opine the "salemanship" on those is as bad or worse than speaker cables.

[Whoaru99]

On the other hand, there are differences in interconnect material and length in the turntable world. Moving magnet phono cartridges are very susceptible to pico farad changes in capacitance. So length, guage, and metal used can make a difference in a turntable.

The problem is that people take what actually does apply to certain situations and broadly brush it where it doesn't apply, or the effect is so miniscule that it's barely measurable, let alone within the likelyhood of audibility.

Skin effect is just one example of a real factor (if you're doing RF work) that has been applied to audio where the effect is tiny fractions of a dB in tests purposely set up to be approximating worst case scenario.

[delcecchi]

OK, if I take an arbitrary periodic waveform with a frequency of 20kHz, it is made up of a fundamental which is a 20Khz sine wave, plus a bunch of other freqencies which are multiples of 20kHz (fourier series).

If it is not periodic, the components are continuous.

So if you take the arbitrary periodic 20khz waveform and filter out or band limit all of the frequencies above 20kHz, you are left with the fundamental which is a 20kHz sine wave.

For example, a square wave is the fundamental plus all the odd harmonics, reduced in amplitude. You can look it up.

[Kyhl]

Um, ok. But is analog music necessarily filtered to 20khz like CD music is required to have?

I don't know. I may have to ask an audio engineer that I know.

My amp is capable of producing a signal to 115khz.

It is -3dB at 115khz, and -0.5dB at 64khz.

I wouldn't recommend this amp for people wanting to listen to SACD through a ribbon tweeter unless it is filterd. The tweeter could try to burn itself out.

If my home equipment can do this, I would like to think that professional equipment would also be wideband when recording the event.

I know that I have a few albums in my collection that were mastered using amps designed by the same person that desinged my amp. And I know that that mastering engineer does not add any compression or limiting to his mastering chain. There would be compression and limiting at the point of the recording. I guess I am assuming that he also does not bandpass the recordings either.

One example I'm thinking of was a Ray Charles recording. And Ray was on hand for the mastering. So you know the music was treated as he wanted it. So at least in the mastering process, this recording used equipment capable of much more than 20khz. I don't know for certain if the music was filtered at any point, but why would I assume it was?

[delcecchi]

If it is on vinyl, the physical aspects of the recording process and the playback process limit the frequency response. For example the stylus used to cut the groove and the stylus used to play the groove have a certain radius. The disk is only moving at a limited speed (33 rpm, maybe 5 inch radius), so it is moving at roughly 31/2 or 15 inches per second. So a 15 kHz sine wave is .001 inches in length.

An elliptical stylus can be as small as 0.2 mils in radius, or approaching a quarter wave. So even if mastered at half speed and all that, the total chain transfer function will roll over pretty well at high frequencies.

And of course your ears are not so good either. Well, mine aren't.

Professionals are realistic with respect to performance and don't pay for stuff that doesn't make a difference.

If you can hear the difference in a double blind experiment, then by all means go for it. Even in a single blind experiment.

Bits are cheap. (note riaa eq. rolloff of 20 dB at 20kHz)

[Kyhl]

You can ignore the RIAA EQ curve. That was implemented to increase the amount of music that could be recorded by shortening the lengths of the bass waves. Hence the name LP, or Long Play record. Without the RIAA EQ curve ablums would be much shorter. The RIAA EQ curve is added when the record is cut then is decoded on playback by implementing an inverse curve.

It has nothing to do with the frequency response of vinyl.

See the wiki vinyl about the frequency range of vinyl. Wiki vinyl.

LP's had quadraphonic recording and the coding for the quad data was in a band around 45khz.

The recording/tracking ability of vinyl is easily at least 50 kHz and perhaps as high as 100 kHz. The most notable proof of this is the CD4 quadraphonic system which relied on a 45 kHz bandwidth to be accurately reproduced. That said, the high-frequency response accuracy of vinyl varies tremendously. Amplitude deviations of 5-10 dB or greater are not uncommon in the 20 kHz range for many records.

In most cases it may not be particularly accurate but it is possible. That is why people study the stampers before buying. Example, if you see SR in the deadwax then you know that pressing was cut by Stan Ricker who is a legend in cutting lacquers.

[Whoaru99]

RIAA EQ was primarily implemented to overcome the physical nature of the cutter head and the stylus/cartridge on playback. While it's true that low bass notes would make make big, squiggly grooves that would hog up more room on the record, that wasn't the primary motivation behind RIAA EQ.

[Kyhl]

Partially correct.

The purpose was to add more content to a side as well as ease cutting a playback.

See the Wiki page on RIAA. The very first paragraph.

[Whoaru99]

I gave you credit for being partially correct.

My point is simply that more on the album was secondary, more or less, in comparison to concerns regarding cutter head and stylus/cartridge and their velocity transducer characteristics.

[Kyhl]

Maybe long play was a welcomed side effect. Chicken or egg? I don't know because I wasn't there. The point is though, implementing an RIAA curve is not proof of the limits of vinyl's frequency response.

Made some changes which I think made things better. Now I'll have to redo the other drop.

Here's a new 3 minute Lynyrd Skynyrd sample dropped from an LP tonight.

https://www.dropbox.com/l/1SMSeiur3EdDgHA1oJWZMe

The only manipulation was adjusting for DC offset and normalizing to -0dB. Ie, no click repair or noise reduction.

[Whoaru99]

Maybe I missed it? What are you using for your ADC in the digitizing process?

I've done a few albums off a Pioneer PL-707 using Shure M111HE cartridge using my old Yamaha C-80 preamp for the phono stage into a Tascam US-144 USB interface.

[Kyhl]

Music hall MMF-7 turntable,

Audio technica OC09/ML2 (low output moving coil)

Phonomenon 2 phono stage,

Anthem AVM20 pre-amp (passing analog),

To an M-audio 24/192 soundcard in a PC.

The soundcard is running at 24/96.

Recording with Adobe Audition 3 (free version) then edited in Audacity 2 (free version)

[Whoaru99]

Anthem AVM20 eh? I have one of those too. I should use it for something, it's been gathering dust since I got a Marantz AV7005 for my HT setup.

[Kyhl]

Nice. Can you PM me your thoughts on the Marantz versus the AVM20? We can take this offline.

[LMITOUT]

So in my case, I have multiple versions, original CD's and LP's, .flac's X2, and mp3. The mp3's are streamed to my phone, the .flacs are used when listening at home.

What is your preferred software for converting to mp3's?

[Whoaru99]

FWIW, I think the software is just a matter of convenience. More importantly is the encoder (afaik LAME is still highly regarded) and ensuring you pick a sampling rate that meets your knee in the curve for sound quality vs. file size.

About the easiest I've seen is LameDrop XPd. Not sure if it is still around.

[Kyhl]

I'm still running things with foobar2000. It plays the flacs and converts between wave, flac, and mp3s.

Plus allows me to manually add cover art and tags.

[Kyhl]

New rule for backing up music onto a server.

Save cover art for each album in the folder.

I find that sometimes iTunes does not add the correct cover art. Or I have a special version of an album and I want to use the cover art from that version.

Also, Foobar requires adding art manually so I've been adding it on my own over time. This would have been much easier if I would have started saving the cover art when ripping the discs.

Edit, hopefully it's not too late for you.

[Whoaru99]

Not for me, anyway. I dont mess around with all that fancy stuff....just play the music. Artist, album, track # and track title.

[Kyhl]

Where I have the Mobile Fidelity, DCC, or Audio Fidelity versions I want to use those covers. Helps me from buying duplicates.

I've also started commenting in the tags for needle drops to note the pressing and version if applicable.

[delcecchi]

Different strokes for different folks. Your ears must be a lot better than the poor old things I have.

[Kyhl]

Most of the pressing differences are very noticeable, timbre, dynamics, and no huffing sounds of noise reduction.

For example, I have a late pressing of Dire Straits Brothers In Arms mastered by Robert Ludwig at Masterdisk. Paid 50 cents for it out of the clearance rack.

I recently found a first pressing for $3. So I had to buy it.

The first pressing was really bright sounding with no bass.

The RL pressing is nice and warm sounding.

Confused, I did some research. Turns out this album was digitally recorded but came out on vinyl first. The CD came out later.

Both the vinyl and the CD where mastered by two engineers.

Both the CD and LP were originally mastered by John Dent.

Pressing plants weren't able to keep up so Masterdisk was added to help press more. Enter Robert Ludwig. RL fixed the thin sounding original pressings and the fixed vinyl versions have Masterdisk in the deadwax.

The differences are large. If I get time I'll drop a sample of each as mp3's.

Also, when the CD streeted, the channels were reversed. This was quickly fixed with a followup CD pressing. If you bought the CD the week it streeted then you have a defective version.

[Kyhl]

I wasn't being fair to John Dent. My first pressing was actually a record club version. So who knows who mastered it. Had I spotted that, I wouldn't have bought it. I always check my used CD purchases for record club versions. Lesson learned. Check the LP's too.

Here's a 1 minute mp3 sample of Money For Nothing . Everyone should be very familiar with this. Notice that the second one has a bass player? The bass player is almost lost in the first version.

On the second version the toms, lead guitar, bass guitar, and synth are all much more prevalent. You can also feel the reverb on the second version. The reverb is completely lost on the first version.

For more fun, if 80's Goth rock is more your thing. I put this one together for an audio forum over the weekend. It compares a recent Mobile Fidelity reissue of Sisters Of Mercy versus the 12 Single version on the Merciful Release label.

At 24/48 .flac.