Minnetonka Muskies

[TBone1]

Ihave boated a few Muskies on Tonka and all but 1 was caught while fishing for Walleye.I hooked my first Ski (43")on Sunday actually fishing for them and have put in alot of time this year trying. Any tips on presentation and turning follows into hookups would be appreciated-Tanks alot

[Trailblazin]

Here's what I do: First of all I don't think there's anyone who tries to go deeper with their figure-8's. I really don't know who came up with this idea! Again this may be different on different lakes, but I try to keep the lure at the same depth rather than going deeper. When you suddenly do deeper, the fish seem to lose sight of the bait and just swim off. Their eyes are on the top of their head not the bottom! If anything coming closer to the surface seems to work better, than going deeper. Also any major body movement, bending over, kneeling down seems to be a bad thing, and spooks the fish. It helps to have long rods as you can make longer moves. I like to make figure-8 rather than circles, because it's easier to make speed changes, althought you need to be careful in the corners, but both work. What seems to be best on a figure-8 is to go fast in the straight-aways and then slow down in the corners. The fish will chase when you are going fast, and then the slow down in the corner this seems to make them bite. You can kind of feed it to them on the corners. There are many that will hit in the straight away as well. Mark Windels says that you should never lose sight of the fish so you can see what it's doing, and I agree!

I can't tell you the number of fish I've caught doing this.

Figure-8s are a great tool, but they aren't the total answer, you still need to fish where the fish live.

here's the actual mechainics behind the 8 with all the fun stuff removed.

1) How fast do you reel? Let's say you are working a bucktail or spinnerbiat. You are reeling about 4 to 5 MPH most of the time or slower. A muskie is capable of speeds in the mid-thirties, so you CANNOT take a lure away form a fish on attack if it wants it.
2) How long is the lure in the water? With the lures described, about 30 to 45 seconds.
3) How does a Muskie 'find' your lure? The bait hits the water, and sound and vibration move out from the impact point at 16 football fields per second. Those and associated stimuli strike the muskie, and if all is well, the fish turns toward your presentation. How? The sound/vibration/pressurewave/whatever move out from the bait in a 360 degree circle to near infinity. As the leading edge of the that 'globe' strikes the fish, it will instinctively turn to that direction, just like you would in our environmemt. Another instictive mechanism 'decides' whether the bait is close enough for the fish to pursue without burning more energy that the capture would be worth. Assuming that and other reactions to your stimulous are positive, the fish kicks toward your lure. The speed at which this happens has more variables atached to it than are of import, suffice to say the level of response to the stimulous IS variable.
4) The fish moves to intersect the lure and tries to visually locate the bait. In many waters, visibility is less than 5'. The Muskie, by virtue of poor visibility in the water and the fact they are pretty badly nearsighted has to get pretty close to get the visual stimulous, and the lure needs to have good enough contrast to allow the fish to seperate it from the background. If indeed this clicks and the overall response is strong enough, then the fish takes an attack vector, and moves in for the kill. If the fish can't find the lure visually, or isn't in a physical 'state' for optimal response to the stimuli, you get a follow.

All of this has to happen in about 30 to 45 seconds.

The figure 8 accomplishes two things. It keeps the lure in the water longer, allowing a fish that is on it's way from a half cast away to get there. Another function has to do with the Muskie's vision.

Muskies don't see as we do. The position of their eyes is totally different. We are primary predators, like it or not. Our eyes are positioned in the front. As a result, we see in 'stereo' out to the very side or perepiheral vision. The Muskie's eyes are positioned top and out to the sides, so the stereo vision in limited to a set of opposing triangles. The field of vision favors upward and directly forward, causing the fish to have to position itself corectly to the presentation to get the bait on the vision 'screen'. Imagine drawing a line from the fish's eyes from the top of the fish (see atachment) across the nose. Where those lines intersect the Muskie BEGINS to see the lure with good depth perception. Any closer, the fish may not see it at all, and gets no visual stimulous. Outside the triangle, the fish sees as you would with one eye closed. Try figuruing out distance to an object with one eye covered, while it is moving at 4 MPH and you are moving too.

The figure 8 moves the lure away from and across the stereoscopic field of vision 4 times, out on the outer circles, and in the inner circles of the 8. If the fish is glued RIGHT on the bait, one needs to get it a bit more out in front, and cross the visual field. If, again, the response is strong enough, you will get the desired hit.

If not, you get a follow, and the fish moves on.

Do I figure 8 every cast? No. I am way too impatient. I look WAY behind the bait looking for a change in the water color or movement, and figure 8 if I think a fish is on it's way. If I get a follow, I figure 8. Otherwise, I do a very long L. I can't help myself. Casting again just makes me feel so good!!

My 2 cents!

[Tonka Boy]

Trailblazin,

That was one of the best, and most informative posts I have seen in a long time! I've been at it (muskie fishing) for years now and have yet to get one on a figure 8. I was begining to think it was a bunch of talk as they always swam under the boat. Thanks for the new understanding!

------------------
Tonka Boy

[TBone1]

WOW!!- Thanks Trailblazin that was great. I know a person also has to put their time in But you have to wonder if theres more one can do. I'll take your advice and see if it will help me hook up to That 48+" I had follow me up both Saturday night and Sunday morning. I owe you one! Thanks Again!

[Trailblazin]

Glad I can shed some light. It took me 3 yrs before I landed my first on a figure 8. I was in the same boat where I had follows and no eaters.

I learned from reading magazine's, attending seminars and just talking to guys out there.

The Figure 8 is not going boat all your fish, but you would be surprised at how many more you will boat right at boatside!
They are there....Some just sitting under the boat waiting for the kill.

Besides the Figure 8 - Another important aspect is the "Throw Back Lure." I like throwing bucktails and spinnerbaits. After a follow and nothing on a 8, I'll have another rod or 2 rigged with a Crane bait, bulldawg or a shallow raider, etc... You'll get alot of fish that way too!

Muskie fishing is muskie fishing....Some days are hot while others are not.

I enjoy the hunt!

[TBone1]

Thanks again! Yet again last night I had a respectable follow and I didn,t see the fish until it was right next to the boat so I know one thing I have to do is pay more attention. I'm going to try to get in the habit of figure 8ing on every cast. Trailblazin, when you use a throw back lure do you just make a couple of short casts in the area or do you hit the area hard? I"ve been tossing alot of crank baits because bucktail don"t seem to working and my follows have been on Bulldawgs and Believers. Do you recommend using the same lure that you had the follow on for throw backs? I have picked up a couple of issues of Musky Hunter which seems to be a good mag and In-Fisherman has a little bit of info. Thanks for your time Trailblazin

[Fish-n-Freak]

Trailblazin
That was more than 2 cents worth! Great post!!

Nice to see another Musky Nut that has put some time into the what's, why's and how's of the sport. It still comes down to being in the right place at the right time -- but being ready and knowing what you are doing can make sure that you take advantage of the chances you are given.

I am going to hit Tonka Friday night -- sure hope to see a fatty, I will be bringing my nephew out for his first Muskie Hunt.

Again, that was a great post!
Steve

[Trailblazin]

TBone1 - If you see the fish at the very last minute, go into the Figure 8 ASAP! Do an 8 for about 30 seconds. That fish is still there....

For throw back lures - if your getting follows on bulldawgs and believers, here are my suggestions:

1) If you see the follow - vary the speed and or make that bait seriously move around. Twitch, twich, jerk, jerk, etc...
A good example is when I am throwing a top raider and see a follow, I'll speed that thing up as fast as I can reel and suddenly stop it. I get alot of hookups that way. Same thing with a bucktail.
2) Throw back lures - rule of thumb is to throw back something different. In your case, I would throw a bucktail/topwater working it fast or better yet a crankbait like a crane bait, shallow invader, etc...Twitch that crank keeping it just below the surface.

There is no rhyme or reason to this crazy sport...Patience,persistence and time on the water will pay serious dividends.

[TBone1]

Trailblazin you are a World of Muskie Knowledge! I was out last night and lost a real nice fish- But also boated a 45" later on in the evening.I'm definitely hooked. I 've been using mono leaders and am real suprised on how well they hold up after being hammered on by Pike and a couple of good sized Muskie. Anyones thoughts on these? Do you think they make a difference on preasured fish?

[Trailblazin]

What kind of mono leaders? Generally, they will hold up although I prefer steel.

47.5 boated Sat am on a shallow raider after it followed a Spinnerbiat. Raised 4 more fish, but no eaters. Great day and action!

[markkstanley]

I've been using fluorocarbon leaders for a few years now and have never had a problem with them. They don't kink and they don't fall apart. And I've never had a bite off. Added bonus is less visibility to fish but with muskies that hasn't ever been a concern.

[TBone1]

Yes I also noticed that they don't kink up. I use 80# mono and flourocarbon. I picked up 2 more at Gander Mt. they do get a little spendy though. I didn't do squat on Saturday. Not even a follow. We Did fish one reef that had some activity on the surface, pretty good sized boils and one of the fish was a Ski. Is there any particular way to approach fish in this situation?

[TBone1]

Trailblazin, Youv'e mentioned Crane Baits a couple of times and I don't believe I've ever seen one. Who makes them ? You got a 47.5", NICE. Things have slowed done for me, a few Slimeys and Bass tonite,no follows. Gonna hit it again tomorrow night. Thanks, TBone1

[Trailblazin]

TBone - For those surfacing muskies, throw it all at them...Topwaters, bucktails/spinners just surfacing the water and cranks like a Crane bait.

[Trailblazin]

TBone - Check out these links! Thorne Bro's has them and so does Rollie and Helens.

I love the Crane bait in Brown perch and the Green Perch/Yellow for Tonka. It is a bait that excels in shallow water worked around cabbage/milfoil, etc....The twitch action on this bait is awesome. I have so much confidence in this bait that I can make it dance!

I like the 7" and 8" sizes.

http://www.muskyshop.com/modules/cart/products.php/keys/crane/page/1/id/287/name/Cranes2077

http://www.thornebros.com/muskie/baits/crankbaits/crankbaits_crane.html

The 47.5" was a beast! I got her to follow my spinnerbait. After a figure 8 - nothing.
Had a Crane bait and shallow raider ready to go on other set ups. Decided to throwback to the same spot I threw the spinnerbait and happened to pick the shallow raider and she nailed it!

What a Blast!!

[TBone1]

Thanks I'll check out Thorne Bros. I have heard alot of good things about them.Heading out again tonite,should be interesting with the heavy wind. Thanks again Trailblazin for all your help -TBone

[Trailblazin]

No Problem TBone! Trust me, I am by no means a muskie expert! I am still learning as I go. Sometimes I have luck, sometimes I don't, and sometimes skill sets in.

Time on the water and learning from others is why I am becoming more successful! There are so many people I thank all the time for their advice and wisdom!

Let us know how tonight goes! Do you fish the west or east side primarily? I'll try to get out Fri night, but will definitely be out early Sat AM!

[TBone1]

Trailblazin- Had one decent fish on tonite- Ski? Also had 2 follows. The first one didn't stick around and the second came up after my jointed Depth Raider and I tried F8 for about 30 seconds and turned her around 2 or 3 times before she slowly sank out of sight, probably 40-42". I went back to the same spot at dusk hoping for a rematch but she didn't show. I primarily fish the west end from Carmans down to Cooks . Theres more than enough to keep me busy and every time I go out I try and hit a "new spot". I have done some Wally fishing around Big Is. and into Wayzata but have'nt done any Ski fishing in that area yet. I plan on spending some full days out there this fall, maybe I"ll get down that way. Have a good one and- Good Luck -TBone

[Trailblazin]

TBone - Sounds like you had some activity!
I'll be out tomorrow night and Sat AM.

Will post over the weekend!

[markkstanley]

TBone, Tonka Boy and I spend a lot of time musky fishing the west end. For this time of the year make sure you get some BIG bucktails. I've been throwing a crappie pattern CJ Spin and a gold blade brown hair Eagle tail (both purchased at Thorne's). I prefer the single hook bucktails - less chance to damage the fish and me and they hookup just as good as trebles in my experience. I also throw walleye pattern Believers and Suicks.
For trolling I switch between a black/silver Ernie or some Big Jakes in orange perch or walleye patterns. Somedays large white spinnerbaits work well also. I tip them with big twisters or a 8" sucker.
FYI I troll more than I cast as I have found muskies to be almost everywhere on the west end. Trolling covers more water and I get my baits past more fish that way. I cast when I see a lot of musky activity on top of the milfoil. There are certain weed flats around the islands that I troll the deep edge first then drift over casting.
The musky bite has been a little slow this year compared to others. I think the amount of forage is keeping the muskies too well fed and the weather has been an issue. Once I switched to fall patterns though the activity level has been better.

[TBone1]

Hey Mark we've probably passed by each other, more than once I'm sure. I know Trolling is more effective But I like to get out and make 5000 casts a day, pick out backlash and burn up my arm. Seriously though I just like to cast on certain areas and see what happens. I have had some activity the last three days, a few follows, hooked 1-39 and a 42". Enough to keep me interested. I,m going to have to head down to Thorne's one of these days. I have ordered off the web but it's not the same as going down there and loading up the cart! Thanks for the info-See you on the water TBone

[markkstanley]

Tonka Boy, Mr Special and I were casting Thursday around the islands when Tonka Boy caught a 42" fish. Had to switch to trolling when the trolling motor acted up and Tonka Boy got another nice fish. Same bait in both cases. On the weed edge both times but tight to it. I was tempted to try wading to see if Tonka Boy would score that way too but it got too dark.

[Trailblazin]

Saturday am - nothing, nada, zilch.....

[TBone1]

One 38" on Thursday. Friday was an interesting day.We had one real nice fish on in the foil and it spit on us, but not before we got a good look at her. We had 5 other follows and three of them were just before dusk on surface lures. It's a preety awesome sight to see water rise behind your lure like a sub coming up to the surface. Saturday Sucked!

[muskieboy46]

TBone1-
if i may ask, what surface lures were you using. i've never had any luck on them. not even a follow.
thanks
muskieboy