Training a GSP??

[chasineyes]

About a month ago we got a 3 year old German Shorthair. When dealing/working with a pointer is "retrieving" from water like a stick really that important? Or should you work more on the hiding a "toy" and working her to find it? She does swim after sticks but tends to drop them at the waters edge. Also do you guys buy one of those fake rubber pheasants and "juice" them up with scent to work on the pointing/finding training?

We've always had labs so not sure if there is some other specific tools when teaching pointers.

Thanks!!

[MuleShack]

Well I guess it depends on what you want out of the dog in the long run.

If she is going to be an occasional hunting dog then bringing the bird back to with in 30' of you is probably acceptable. However if she doesn't pick up (retrieve) the bird, then is that a problem? For most it would be and you would have to do force fetch with the dog.

Short hairs are a pointing dog and can play with dummies, sticks, balls, but the limited experience I have had it tends to get them focused on the toy and then they forget about obedience.

My 9mo pup just finished her gun dog class last week and there is a lot that goes into the training that I was not even aware of. It starts with obedience, here, heel and whoa. Once those are understood and the dog is working with out correction, they move into the force fetch if the dog doesn't retrieve to hand. (mine didn't) Then they move into the field training with off leash obedience and then working the birds, enforcing the whoa, holding steady, moving forward on a running bird and whoa ing again and then finally in field retrieve to hand with bird.

If your looking to hunt the dog, then a rubber pheasant may work with some scent, but you first need to understand what you want out of the dog. Do you want her to point at the plastic pheasant? Do you want her to jump in at it and flush it and grab it? If you want her to point, how are you going to teach/reinforce the whoa if/when she doesn't point?

From what I've heard, she can hunt, but not retrieve birds, so maybe look at getting some pigeons and clip the wings and plant them in the weeds and then work her on a check cord so you can reinforce the whoa if/when she points.

The retrieve with live birds is a process, my trainer took 4 weeks to do the force fetch. My pup would bring the birds back but drop them 5' from my feet, and it takes 4 weeks plus to get that extra 5'. Now she will "hold" when I tap on the bird and wont drop it until I say "drop".

[BLACKJACK]

Nothing worse than a dog that won't bring a bird back!! The first time you drop a pheasant in some cattails/two feet of water and you're out there sloshing around looking for it.... Spend some time on the retrieving training, if its a meat dog, the retrieving doesn't have to be perfect (to hand), but it should at least bring it to within 5 feet of you.

[GSP4ME]

Let the pup be a pup. Every one is different and they need to be treated that way. I like to do a bird introdction to the pups and see what kind of drive they have. I will take a litter and wing tie a pigeon and toss it in with the pups just to watch and see what they have. WIth what you are asking, I have GSP's that are retrieving machineI I start them all out young and let them chase balls, bumpers whatever. I am not worried about obedience at this point. Let the pup have fun and let them know how much you enjoy what they are doing. I would do mainly land work to start with as you are more likely to have success with the retirves. As the pup comes to you start backing up like you are trying to get away from them, this normally will get the pup to come at you quicker. Here is the best advice I can give you Go to the library or Barnes and Nobel and get the book by Joan Bailey, How to Help Gun Dogs Train Themselves. One of the best books out there and low key and stress free as much as possible.

[MuleShack]

Let the pup be a pup.

Its a 3 year old female...

[bopper4]

I have2 gsps and had great success with the force fetching and live birds. I used quail and chuckar as they got older. They are by no means perfect but of the 100 plus birds we have shot over them they have brought it back every time!

[GSP4ME]

I think that a GSP can be one of the best retrievers around. I have two of mine doing blinds that would put a lab to shame. Nothing like watching the retriever guys faces when this 45 pound little female GSP outdoes their labs on duck day

[LABS4ME]

I have two of mine doing blinds that would put a lab to shame. Nothing like watching the retriever guys faces when this 45 pound little female GSP outdoes their labs on duck day

Really? I'd think there is a touch of sarcasim in this statement...

Good Luck?

Ken

[GSP4ME]

none at all as far as sarcasm gos at least.

[LABS4ME]

Well then my friend, while I currently do not have a lab to take up such a challenge, I'm thinking that I can round up a couple of friends with labs and let's see if your dog can really out do a lab on blind...

I'm not saying that a shorthair can't be taught to run blinds, seen them do so... I even had a shorthair running short lines and taking O.K. hand signals a couple decades back... I just find it hard to believe that one will out do a well trained lab... just like I would be comfortable saying there is no 'pointing' lab that can out do a well trained shorhair in the pointing arena...

Good Luck!

Ken

[GSP4ME]

Ken, I understand what you are saying and mean do disrespct to you or your breed of choice. If you ever get the chance to go out to Kelly Farms to watch some training by some of the NAVHDA guys getting ready for the Invitational or even better when it is hosted by one of the chapters up here please take a look at it and I think you would be very impressed. The one I have now will do multiple marks and double blinds out to 400 yards. I started out with labs decades ago and use a lot of my time with them to work my Shorthairs on their retrives

[TylerS]

As a NAVHDA guy, here's my quick-and-dirty advice: Force fetch. Complete the program from start to finish without cutting corners, and you will have a dog that will retrieve anything through any environment consistently and without question.

It's not a pretty process, but it works. Now, if Remy goes into the water to fetch, he retrieves the target, returns it to me, and waits soaking wet by my side until told to release. This is a CRITICAL step for retrieving winged birds. The last thing you need is a dog dropping a cripple at the edge of the water...

[GSP4ME]

My point exactly, When you hunt it is critical and in the dog games that so many of us love it is as well. There gos the 204 when he or she drops that bird at the waters edge

[chasineyes]

Ok, I'll sound like a complete moron but...what is Force Fetch???

[GSP4ME]

force fetch or as a lot of trainers are calling it now a days the trained retrieve is where you are teaching the dog that it is to pick up what ever you are using with out question and to hold it until you tell it to release. There are tons of articles out there about it and as many different ways to do it as there are trainers. What it comes down to is that it the way to get a guaranteed retrieve to hand each and every time you send your dog on a fetch. No dropping the bird no hard mouthing the bird, etc. you are teaching the dog how to hold and deliver the bird to you