Big Fish Survival

[Down to Earth]

With the two big fish recently there has been some hot discussion on some boards about CPR, keeping a once in a lifetime fish, etc. Without opening a big can of worms as this topic usually does on some musky boards, I am just curious as to what type of survival one could have expected had these fish been released. I can't imagine with the age of these fish combined with the exertion during the catch what it does to them. Even if you do see it swim off are the chances good that it will have a long term survival? Thanks.

[Fish-n-Freak]

From what I have been told, all these fish were 'released'. The one 60"er from the St.Lawrence just wouldn't stay down and kept going belly up, so they kept her.

These big fish all had one thing in their favor, the colder water temps. If these fish were caught in August, I don't know if any of them would have made it. It also helped that these fish were caught by experienced muskie guys, that knew how to handle them and wanted them back in the water ASAP!

On the age issue, it's hard to say that these fish were 'old'. There are some VERY old fish out there that are only 44", and some not so old fish that are 55"+. Not all fish have the genetic code to make the 50" mark, no matter how old they get. There are fish out there that are just "Genetic Giants" they grow very fast and reach world class size rather quickly. These are the fish we want to be using for the stocking programs. You are not going to get a bunch of record class fish, if you are starting with low 40" brood stock. This is one of the areas where MN has shined over WI. MN has done a great job with their quality brood stock, and the fish stocked in MN have a greater potential than those in WI.

WI does have great numbers, but the average size just doesn't compare to that of MN.

We have really seen some big fish the past couple of years, CPR it's working!

[Guest]

Fish-N-Freak.

I guess I'm starting a debate here, but I have some generic questions.....

Yes, to start off, CPR has saved our musky fishing. No doubt about it, hands down, no challenge....

However, it is known fact that a 18 to 20 inch walleye is the best fish size for quality reproduction / quantity reproduction. With that being said, how true is it, that these big fish are even capable of reproducing, when it is known that the big 30" walleyes can't compete with a 20"?

So, my question is this.........Are these big fish that are being returned reproducing, or are we just catching them again, and again, and again. Both LOTW and even French lake in Faribault, I worked "seasoned" fish that have seen alot of lures. They know it, I know it......

I'm all for catch and release, but I will admit, I plan on putting a "once in a life time" ski on the wall. Alot of people give me some bad looks, but it is how I feel about it. What fish will it be....I don't know....It may be another 10 or even 20 years of fishing before it happens. But if I did catch that St. Law. Monster, it would of gone on the wall. I've caught some beauties for skis and even have broken the 25lb pike mark on two fish. I did mount the 29lb pike. I couldn't throw it back.

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Let 'em go so they can grow!!!

[MT Net]

I'm not a biologist, so I can't answer the reproduction question.

But, as far as keeping a large legal fish, it is your choice, within the rules and regulations. Granted, I would like a shot at catching that fish if you plan to keep in the future. Perhaps a graphite replica. The more lures it sees, the more of a challenge it is to catch.

Either way, its your right to decide whether to mount it, or get a replica.

[Scoot]

"Let 'em go so they can grow!!! " is at the bottom of your post, but you're saying something pretty different. Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

But... I'm not trying to start a fight here. It does sound like you're generally an advocate of CPR (how could anyone not be?) But if my sig. said something like "put 'em all back", I wouldn't be writing that I planned on keeping the "big one."

[TomWehler]

Those Canada guys did real well this year.
Wow!
Right on!
Let most we get boat side go without taking them out of the water.
Get a bunch each season while out alone with the hounds and they have yet to take a good photo for me.

I have to be the worst guide at measuring as I just don't care and forget to do it time and again.
Big and beautiful or small and cute.
All Musky are good to me.
Numbers and lenght mean little to me.
We have to keep track of most simply cause NEW clients ask, got to have something to show them.

More inprotant is wher, when, on what, depth, wind, time, and such.
Helps in planning a day, weekend or week trip.
Fun during the winter to see all the little flags on the map marking my fish and clients fish.

We use top quality equipment, Long, Extra heavy rods with very fast tips.
Turn them at hook set and make it quick.
We take fish very Green, let them go the same way.
In good shape and still [PoorWordUsage]ed off.

As said by MT, it is your right, do what you feel works for you.
Nothing wrong with that.
We just don't feel good about killing something I'm not going to eat.
Is that good?
Is it bad?
Don't know.
Just what we do.
CPR has proven to work.

Older fish are cool to us.
Not my intention to kill them.
It does happen and that is not good I guess.

I get a monster like them guys.
Photo and measure it up I guess, then let it go!
If it dies, and we don't know it, so be it.
Turtles got to eat too.

Don't know anything about rearing fish or any of that.
Just know the people on the lake I fish, most do a wonderful job.
Get a hawg, let it go is cool.
Lets all do it more offen.

Life is short, go find some and grab a bunch.

Tom Wehler

www.muskytomsguideservice.com

[This message has been edited by TomWehler (edited 11-21-2003).]

[Fish-n-Freak]

Big G,
Good question/comments; I guess the main point I would bring up, is the age of the fish. Most of those Walleye in the 18-22" range are about 4-5 years old. If you find a fish that is 4 years old (prime age) and is 25" wouldn't you like to have that fish carry on it's genetics? Same goes for the Muskies. If you find the fish with the faster growth rates, and highest top end potential, these are the ones you want in your brood stock lakes. Even if down the road, these fish are producing fewer eggs, the eggs we get will still have the genetics we are looking for. There will come a day where these fish aren't producing enough to make it worth catching and stripping them, but the years of good production will do wonders for the stocked lakes. I would agree that in the 'wild' these big 'older' fish are not going to be prime spawners, but any fish they do produce would be welcome in my lake. ;-)

Remember, everyone has their own ideas of what a trophy is, and how they want to preserve it. I would have to agree with Tom, most of my fish are never out of the water. I have been Muskie Fishing for over 20 years, I released 2 over 45 pounds and do not have pictures of either one. I don't think I have more than 6 pictures where I have a fish out of the water.

This sport is all about the hunt for me. I want to learn the where, when and how and then upon the actual catch, it is a quick cut of the hooks and off they go! Bigger fish will be held in the net a minute to get a length and girth, mostly just for my own curiousity.

Good Luck on your quest for that one special fish! I have no problem with that. :-) I would like to see that "wall of fame", I bet there are some great pictures up there, and the stories behind them are all special.

I have seen some great replicas, I will try to find out who did them and let you know.

Steve

[Guest]

Please do get me some info on good replicas.

I would appreciate it!!!

[guideman]

There have been studies done on muskies and how well they spawn. The one that comes to mind was done by Larry Ramsell in Wisconsin. They had fish of all ages that were tagged and milked of their eggs in the spring.
They found fish over 25 years old that were still spawning. I'm sorry I don't have the information in front of me, so I can't give you exact data.

Larry told me last fall that fish were striped of eggs by the WDNR, that were long past their "prime". Yet they had over 50,000 eggs in them and were very actively spawning. These were all 50"+
muskies that were still passing on the
genetic material to grow "BIG" muskies.

If you want to check out the best place
to get a replica try "Artistic Anglers.
I personally can't understand why we as
hunters and fisherman need to hang that dead animal on the wall. Will it really change the way you feel about yourself?
Or for that matter, the way others look at you, I doubt it.
Like we used to say when we were kids,
Take a picture, it will last longer!

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Terry "Ace" Sjoberg
Ace guide service.
aceguideservice.com
NPAA #278
[email protected]

[RuKiddingMe]

Take a look at these websites, there is some GREAT informatiuon regarding muskie biology and so much more.

http://www.trentu.ca/muskie/muskie.html

http://www.esoxresearch.com/erc_web/research/biology/

Matt

[Guest]

Terry and Matt;

Thanks for that info. I guess I need to retract my statement of putting that "one" on the wall. I was always under the beleif that those big fish didn't spawn that well. Therefore, by placing the giant on the wall "once" (only if I did it, of course), wouldn't effect the fishery.

Learned something new today. Hopefully Scoot won't get made at me when I use my "Signature".

Peace............I'm going to get ready for tomorrow's deer hunt!

Gary

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Let 'em go so they can grow!!!

[Guest]

Scoot, you're right. I'm not taking any offense at all.

I have let all of my fish go, except a 29lb pike. I promote CPR. However, my question that I was looking for detail on, is when a fish is that big, I would have to assume that it is an old fish. Yep, genetics come into play, but to what degree? I will admit to all, that if I caught the pig on St. Law., I would of kept it. It would of been the "one". Well, maybe if everybody kept the "one", it would hurt the population. I'm sure it would, then before you know it, we are proud of 40" fish. I know it's true. And I will admit a bit of hipocrisy as well. I can't deny it. But!!!, I've let more "trophy" fish go without hesitation than most people will catch in their life. I have a wall dedicated to my fish pictures. Does it look cheesy and self pompous........yep!

However, I haven't seen a replica yet, that I liked. I must admit, that I haven't seen that many either. All of the replicas that I've seen look like cheap plastic. Mostly of the mouth. Sure, the body looks good, but the mouth looks like a cheap toy. If you can lead me onto someone who can do it to the point that you can't tell the difference, I'm there!

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Let 'em go so they can grow!!!