When do I need Egress Windows??

[S.D. Ice Angular]

I recently bought a house with two bedrooms in the basement. Neither room has “Egress Windows”

The house was built in 1977 and it does have a walk out basement (Single 36” Door)

One Bedroom is 9 steps from the bedroom door and the other is 17 steps to the “Walkout Basement Door” (Regular Walking Pace).

Do I legally have to have Egress Windows in these rooms to call them bedrooms?

[jentz]

Do I legally have to have Egress Windows in these rooms to call them bedrooms?

YES You'll have to look it up there is a mininum height to egress and total sq.inches for egress.

[FishDepot]

You said the house was built in 1977. In MN, the first State Building Code was adopted (by Statute - as directed by the State Legislature) in 1972. Prior to that, there was no "state building code" in MN.

You need to call the State Dept. of Labor and Industry, Construction Codes Division, and ask them to research what the code said for 1977 (when the bedrooms in the basement were built). Egress windows may not have been required back then. If I remember correctly, some of the older residential codes had egress window size requirements that were much smaller than what it is now too. The sill height requirement at one time was 48 inches above the floor too.

The State Building Code is not retroactive. That means you cannot be required to install egress windows in your house/bedrooms if it was built properly and in accordance with the original code that it was permitted under (unless you are remodeling the bedroom/windows themselves).

Having said this, please be aware that some cities (and some point of sales agreements) will require code updates for things that are deemed "hazardous." Most people believe that not having egress windows in bedrooms is hazardous (not recommended), so you may at some point be required to upgrade them anyhow.

The current/new building code requires an egress window in every sleeping room - regardless of its location in the dwelling. The minimum openable size is 20 inches wide by 24 inches tall, but it must be at least 5.7 square feet in area too, so one of those dimensions must be bigger to meet this. The window sill must also not be more than 44 inches above the floor. The building code also requires a smoke detector in each bedroom and immediately outside each bedroom (withing the hallway or adjacent room serving the bedroom). You also need a CO detector within 10-feet of each bedroom.

...Just something to consider.

[jentz]

If he has it inspected or gets caught by anyone ie assessor ect., he will have to upgrade FIRE CODE,Last I remember height was at 44 inches to actual opening,sq.inches Dont recall

[upnorth]

If you purchased a home with those homes listed as bedrooms and no disclosure about no egress, someone violated the law.

Using a room as a bedroom without egress windows, while not smart, is not against the law as I understand it. The egress part will come into play when you want to sell. Legally can't list them as bedrooms with out egress windows. At least that was the way it was back when I was working in Real Estate sales.

[S.D. Ice Angular]

Thanks for your replies guys, There are no leagle issues here.

I bought the property “AS IS” This home was totaled out in the July 1st Tornado in Lincoln County.

I have already removed everything above the Floor Joists and the first layer of plywood floor. I have 4” of “Blue Board” type insulation and have it capped for the winter. I am keeping the foundation at 45° F for the winter.

I will never use these rooms as bedrooms myself but as long as I am starting from scratch this spring with the construction process I thought I might as well punch out these windows to make them a legal bedrooms for resale reasons.

I guess my main question was with a walk out basement door so close to the bedroom entry doors do I need Egress Windows. So far your replies have given me reason to believe that I DO STILL NEED THEM???

This is what I purchased:

These are the windows I am questioning:

This is its current state:

[jentz]

Looks like a nice location.The theory in the egress is if a fire doesn't allow exit from the BDR door, the window is the only viable escape.

[upnorth]

Or rescue through.

[frazwood]

I am interested in the answer to this question too.

We are considering converting the back part of our detached garage into a bunkhouse and so the same principle applies (i.e., we need an escape route in case of fire).

Our plan was to pull permits when we did our project, assuming that the permit inspectors would know the answer... but it wouldn't hurt to have some knowledge beforehand.

[upnorth]

I am also thinking the local fire depts could give some input.

[pinkfloyd4ever]

If you purchased a home with those homes listed as bedrooms and no disclosure about no egress, someone violated the law.

Using a room as a bedroom without egress windows, while not smart, is not against the law as I understand it. The egress part will come into play when you want to sell. Legally can't list them as bedrooms with out egress windows. At least that was the way it was back when I was working in Real Estate sales.

That is my thought too. Looks like quite a lot of work, but if you are doing that much, I'd say you should put one in? Not my $ though

[FishDepot]

UpNorth: In Minnesota, the law (statute) states that the MN Building Code is the states "minimum construction standard." It says this because most of the geographic area of the state has not adopted the code (locally). This language then defaults to all persons building a structure regulated by the state code. In essence, that person doing the building is required to follow the code whether there is permitting and inspection or not. This could haunt you upon a sale or if something were to happent to the building and a lawsuit occured - and an investigator found that the structure was not built to minimum code.

If a city adopts the State Building Code, they are required (again, by law) to hire a Building Official. That offical is the person you want to speak to on this for the county you are in with this house.

For buildigns undergoing repairs, alterations, or remodeling (or new - which I would designate this to be since the house is more that 50% gone), egress windows are always required in every sleeping room/bedroom. Note that if you designate a room/space on the plan as a bedroom it must have egress windows. If you designate a room/space (on the plan) as a den, or study, NOBODY can make you install egress windows.

Building codes, Fires codes, local ordinances, realestate law, and point of sale laws are all different things. No tax assessor or realestate person can require you to install egress windows. A Fire Marshal can at any time, but if you think about it, when was the last time you heard of that happening. ...That would be political suicide if enforced on existing buildings!

When undergoing construction, a Building Official can too - if the work area is a designated bedroom. A local zoning/code enforcement person can - if the city has a point of sale or a rental code (if you are renting the unit). Otherwise, nobody else can or is going to make you have egress windows in an existing dwelling (again not smart or safe though).

Realestate law may require that you not advertise/sell a space as a bedroom if it does not have an egress window, but they cannot make you install one unless there is also a local point of sale ordinace that requires it and you are trying to sell/advertise it as a bedroom.

[Eric Wettschreck]

This thread has me curious also. The wife and I recently became empty nesters and are sprucing up the house, maybe for sale, maybe not, we dunno.

Anyhoo- my place is pre-1950, 1 1/2 story with 2 bedrooms upstairs. I'm curious to know what type of windows need/should be in these rooms. Honestly, you aint getting out these windows without a ladder or jumping, but I'm still curious as we're doing some remodeling up there.

[FishDepot]

"Sprucing" means what? You would only be required to upgrade your bedroom windows in an existing house in MN if:

1) The city you live in has a point of sale ordinance that requires you to upgrade the windows to current code at the sale of your home;

2) You and a buyer agree (at the time of a negociated purchase agreement), that you will upgrade the windows for the sale;

3) You are renting the house/rooms and your city has an ordinance that requires egress windows in rental unit sleeping rooms for the license to rent;

4) You are constructing/creating a new bedroom in the basement or on another story of your house. Under this "new" construction you'd have to have an egress window in the new bedroom;

5) You are remodeling existing bedrooms by removing the existing drywall, plaster/lath on the window wall side of the room. When going to this extent, many building officials will also then require the windows to be upgraded;

6) A Fire Marshal just happened to write you an order to replace your bedroom windows for safety reasons (per the Fire Code, but not likely to happen); and,

7) You are replacing the existing windows with a total window package replacement (tearing out the existing window to the existing framed wall opening). The current building code actually allows you reduce the opening a bit if you are planning to install jamb inserts.

See a post above for current egress window minimum size/height above the floor requirements for todays code.

In any other circumstance, you can sell your old house "as is" if sprucing up means painting an existing bedroom, or something similar.