Big Sunfish article

[Corey Bechtold]

I was searching the Star Tribune and found an interesting article by Ron Schara talking about the dissapearence of big Sunfish. It stated that the DNR should be doing something to protect those 9 plus inch sunfish in our lakes to protect the future of good panfishing. It was a good point which I would agree with. Did any of you see that article? What are your thoughts?

Corey Bechtold

[CrappieJohn]

I didn't see the article Coey, but I do have to agree that something might have to be done on certain waters to help preserve that "large fish" fishery. We do have to remember that not all waters have a problem with producing large sunfish in numbers.The problem that I see with regulation in specific waters is that those who seem to need to glut on the largest fish will simply move to the lakes that are not regulated and strain them. I don't see where placing a statewide slot on those fish will help either, but having a limit that includes only , say, two fish over 8 inches might help. I'd like to think that education is the answer, but that sort of rings like teenagers, cars, and driver education....things seem fine in the classroom, but turn them loose with their cronies and watch what happens. MilleLacs is a good example of how imposed slots work. Lots of nice fish there, but what can you keep?

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[Corey Bechtold]

I don't think we're talking about putting a slot on sunfish rather lowering the limits on good Sunfish lakes. As far as Mille Lacs goes, I'd agree the slot has changed that lake but look at how diverse that fishery is becoming. Muskies, Smallmouth, Largemouth, Crappie, Sunfish, Pike, this lake is changing for the better I think. Finally there is something other than Walleyes to go after out there. But back to the sunfish, I'd agree that teaching the art of selective harvest may be the way to go. My kids know that the big ones need to go back, even my dad is starting to see the light!

[The Grebe]

I read the article, my son and Brian Brosdahl used to go to school together and fish as much as they could.

I'll tell ya, Sunfish and Crappies are my favorite, especially through the ice and for me, it is terribly hard to throw back the big ones!

A 5 pound LM, or a 4 pound SM, no problem, take a picture and over the side. A 5 to 8 pound wally, hey, I don't mind seeing them swim away after a picure ( I've got a lot of the former, only 1 that went 9) A huge pike, 15 or better, Bon Voyage.

But a big gill? It's not that I catch buckets full of 9 inch fish, but I do catch a few occassionally and I have to admit, I don't let them go (Pox on me!)

I don't know, if you knew you were going to more then likely catch a whopper in a lake managed for whoppers, and would have to throw it back, would it mean the same as bagging one in a lake that was'nt?

Mille Lacs is managed for big fish and everyone knows that you can probably catch a sizable wally out of there, but does it mean as much, KNOWING that you can probably do it? I don't know the answer, but I do like big sunnies!

Everyone in the state

[WxGuy]

Here's the link....

http://www.startribune.com/stories/534/4897850.html

[CrappieJohn]

I guess my comparison of MilleLacs is a poor one for sunnies. Sunfish are prolific and successfully breed when other species may struggle. In managing lakes for larger fish, I think it would be very easy to over-populate a lake with smaller fish before you get numbers of large fish. And if a certain lake(s) is managed in an area for larger fish, but has a slot the fishermen who take the larger fish will simply move to the waters not under control. I believe that actions speak louder than words, so I throww them back at about 8-8 1/2 inches. And of course I preach the merits of selective harvest. I am not going to dun anyone for taking some fish even if it includes a couple that may be out of the bracket that I impose on myself. I remember some recent dialog between the dnr and fishermen about sunfish size dwindling on the backwaters of the Miss at Wabasha. The anglers persisted in keeping the larger fish, now they can keep way fewer fish. The anglers in that area did it to themselves and they can blame no-one but themselves. These people were going down there every day during hot bites and at prime times and taking limits of these beautiful fish daily, sometimes more than once a day. This is why there are problems in certain waters regarding larger fish.

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Plastics...making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys! CrappieTom

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[This message has been edited by CrappieTom (edited 07-29-2004).]

[1Yogi]

This is an issue that has to do with the amount of fish vs. amount of food as well. Sunnies are prolific breeders and this is the reason the DNR has seen little reason to change the rules regarding them. The "Prolific" part is also part of the problem, if a lake is over populated there will be a stunting affect due to lack of food for the fish to eat.

[CrappieJohn]

Yogi....The food issue is pertinant to lakes which are a closed system. Another very important issue is the destruction of habitat. The larger fish do seem to require somewhat different habitat in order to exist in healthy numbers. Habitat issues are the biggest "non-harvest" issue on moving waters, in my opinion. This is where my reference to the Miss. River comes from. And too, the food sources have their own requirements regardless of where the fish are found. Waters that sour because of weed intrusion or siltation problems can become unsuitable for some insect life and it just may be the primary food source thru much of the year for the sunfish and crappies found there. I don't see where there is a good answer or solution other than for fishermen to take charge of what they take home and do so with respect to the future.

------------------
Plastics...making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys! CrappieTom

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[This message has been edited by CrappieTom (edited 07-29-2004).]

[carlcmc]

caught a 9 - 1/2 inch sunnie on a large leech on a slip bobber earlier this week in Lake Zumbro. Fought like a bass too!

[1Yogi]

CrappieTom, I was hoping to add something pertinent to the topic thanks for clarifying that the lake must be a closed system for the food issue to cause runting. For me the eater size sunnies are about the size of my hand, some times a little larger. I dont go back again and again if I have a meal in the freezer, and if I do go back, I release if I have a meal in the freezer. This is as much a matter of praticality as conservation, I don't have a chest freezer just for fish and game. If I did have a chest freezer then conservation would come first.

[CrappieJohn]

Yogi....Ma and I will eat fresh fish at every chance we can get. And as you say, we just don't keep fish if we have some that are frozen.

A clarification needs to be made here. Lets use a "closed system" as an example. Some waters will be able to promote numbers of larger fish, some waters will not even see a larger fish. While in one puddle you might find an endless supply of 10" gills, you may find a 1000 acre lake stuggling to yeild a couple of 8 1/2 inch fish in a day's worth of fishing. Assuming that both waters will have adequate food stores and that genetics are available to support "large fish" growth, why the difference. I think the larger water will get the attention over the smaller and fishing pressure becomes an issue. I know of small sand pit type ponds around home that have sunfish well over 10 inches in them, but because of limited access, they get little attention....the fishing pressure isn't there. Where there is fishing pressure, you are going to have to deal with harvest rates, and after release mortality. If these smaller waters were opened up to the public, they'd be done in in a year.

I think you can see where I am headed here. The one common factor regarding the QUALITY of fish size is directly proportional to the amount of angling pressure. It is the responsibility of those anglers to monitor what they do and some are simply non'compliant fish hogs. The water's size is not so much an issue as is angler intervention. Couple that with the improvements made to tackle and the new techniques used to fool these fish into hitting. The fish , I think, are now the disadvantaged ones. It is here that we get caught asking what size is ok to keep.

In order to establish a threshold for keeper fish we have to know what the water will yield...we have to catch fish in numbers enough to determine what is there and the frequency of larger fish being in that mix. Use that as guideline for keeping fish, only stay out of the upper 2" inches of length if the water gives up fish 10" or more. I know, it is hard to do when you start seeing those biggies come to the net or thru the hole, but it is a sound practice and you will be helping to spread this ethic through your actions....people notice this sort of activity.

And Yogi....as to your freezer ethic, my hat is off to you.

------------------
Plastics...making better fishermen without bait! Good Fishing Guys! CrappieTom

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[This message has been edited by CrappieTom (edited 07-30-2004).]

[Borch]

Actually there been a fair amount of research on this and what been found is that the problem in stunting isn't as much a food issue with bluegills as originally thought. Rather when the large mature bull gills are harvested from a system the smaller younger fish are able to participate in the spawn. You see these mature gills are very territorial and chase off the younger fish. But if they're gone they can't chase them away. After this happens the growth rates slow dramaticly(practicly stops) causing a stunted population of sunfish.

Based on this information rather than reducing harvest one would be better to look at a 3 fish over type of limit with the remainer of the harvest being smaller fish. Certainly if you have a massive amount of smaller fish that no one what to keep in a large food will become an issue.

I believe the MN DNR also refernces this. But the original study that I'm aware of was done in Indiana I believe. I know it's been referenced on this site in the past as well.

Borch

[Corey Bechtold]

I just was paging through the ODN and saw in the Mixed Bag area that the DNR is seeking input on walleye regs in the Grand Rapids area and a special regs meeting in Brainerd for different species in several lakes. Maybe this is a sign of things to come. There are about 4 lakes in the Brainerd area that they are proposing a reduced bag, minimum length, or a combination of both for Crappies and Sunfish.

Have any of you read where they took some lakes in the Leech lake area and put in some of these special regulations? I have read somewhere (ODN I think) that it has really improved the size and quantity of panfish in those lakes.