Carbon Monoxide Reminder

[GatorBait]

As the lakes begin to ice over and temperatures continue to drop past freezing, we Ice Fishing fanatics need heat to stay comfortable. Here is a safety reminder for everyone to avoid accidental bodily harm and/or death during our sport.

Carbon Monoxide (CO) is an odorless and colorless gas caused by the incomplete combustion of fossil fuels due to improper air mixture resulting from restricted fresh air flow to your appliance burner or an obstructed or poorly designed vent to the outside atmosphere. CO poisoning produces flu like symptoms, watery eyes, headaches, dizziness, fatigue and possible death. By inhaling this deadly gas, it slowly replaces the oxygen in your bloodstream, thus leading to suffocation. The use of portable propane tanks or unvented heating sources inside a portable shanty, permanament ice shelter, camper, rv, or other enclosed areas can produce deadly carbon monoxide.

Every year I hear about this happening and am sadden that it probably could have been prevented by spending an extra 5 minutes checking your set up. Mostly it occurs when people decide to sleep in there permanents, which is then heated by their propane burners and are poorly vented. Please, take the time to check your venting, ensure it is unobstructed and large enough to allow ample air flow to help filter out the CO.

Since 2000, heater companies such as Mr.Heater and Coleman have attached Oxygen Depletion Sensors on their new products. Though their good intentions are to help you gain the upper hand on CO Poisoning, their effectiveness has not been 100% successful. Never trust anything mechanical, because what can go wrong, will go wrong, use your common sense. Stay Safe this year and Good Luck Fishing!!

[KrabbyPatties]

Great reminder, GatorBait.

Say, does anyone know if you can have effects from chronic CO exposure? Example: Say one fishes 40 evenings per winter for several years and uses a sunflower until the point of headaches or other mild CO effects regularly, but never having acute poisoning. Are there effects from this type of regular exposure? Or, does just getting to back fresh air purge your system and there is little difference between 1 headache exposure and 50 headache exposures?

Just curious.

[Eric Wettschreck]

Awesome reminder Gator. Actually, I have to replace the CO detectors in my porties and my perm house.

As far as how much exposure over any period of time the brain can take..........I don't know. I would think (emphasis on the word think) if you're getting a propane hangover, you're doing damage.

[GatorBait]

It is possible to develop Chronic CO Poisoning Syndrome. Obtaining the fresh air may feel like you have purged your body of harm, but side effects may begin to develop if exposure continues on said basis. Here is some info to the effects associated with this. Chronic CO Syndrome Most what I've read about from personal experiences include memory defects and motor disorders. Ain't worth the risk to be honest.

Those sunflowers are great but man, i've experienced the effects of those things a few times and I most certainly do not care for that feeling at all.

[KrabbyPatties]

I quit using the sunflower heater early last winter. I have experienced headaches and nausea a few times, and I said, "enough".

I just wondered about the possibility of chronic poisoning. Thanks.

[reinhard1]

first, welcome to HSO and thanks for the post. i think it's all about ventilation. i have been using the sunflower heater on top of my propane tank and never had a problem. i think that apply's to every heater. good luck.

[bikeoutback]

I have never had a headache or any of the other symptoms of CO exposure when using either my buddy or big buddy heaters in my portable BUT for a mere $25 this year I bought a battery operated CO detector with digital read out (you can pay less for one that just alarms without read out) so I can see exactly what the level is in my portable. I more got it as a safety when I use the heater in my 4 season tent in late fall but it was warm during our trip this year so never used the heater thus never used the CO detector but will have it in the portable as I'm curious and I own it anyways. I worry more when I'm sleeping and wouldn't be able to notice the headache vs in portable but better safe than sorry especially for $20 plus occasional battery replacement.

[KrabbyPatties]

I have thought about getting a CO detector to satisfy my curiosity about the level of CO actually being produced, but haven't done it yet. Have any of you who use them noticed what your readings are?

[Fishinguy40]

Below is an email that I sent to friends and co-workers several years ago. It details my personal experience with CO poisoning. Even with ventilation CO can still build to dangerous levels. BUY A CO DETECTOR.

Here is my story:

Saturday I went ice fishing on a local lake. I was in a portable shelter with a portable propane heater and a propane lantern. I have used this same equipment for three years. The only thing different was that I recently added Reflectix, a foil coated bubble wrap insulation, to the inside roof of my portable ice shelter. The shelter is a clam style that consists of a sled and poles with canvas. I did this to help insulate and prevent condensation from forming on the inside roof, which then drips down on you.

Saturday afternoon was a warm day. It was in the high 20’s. Because of this I used the propane lantern on a low setting as a heat source instead of the portable heater. As the sun set, it got dark and cold so I fired up the portable heater and turned the lantern up for light. My daughter’s boyfriend, Chris, joined me after he got off work, around 6 pm. After fishing for awhile I began to feel a little light headed. I wasn’t sure if it was from sitting in one spot all afternoon or what but I decided to get up and out of the shelter and walk around on the ice for a few minutes to get some fresh air and to get the blood pumping. I immediately felt better.

I went back into the shelter and resumed fishing. The roof vents on the shelter were open to allow air circulation and had been open all day. As an added precaution I also open the two side windows for added air circulation. About 30 – 40 minutes later I began to feel light headed again. I got up to go outside the shelter again for fresh air. I left the door unzipped for a good exchange of air as I began to suspect carbon monoxide. I took several steps outside the shelter and felt very dizzy. I was at the point where I was stumbling and had trouble keeping my balance. I stopped and lay down on the ice. Chris came out of the shelter and said that he was feeling a little light headed just as I began vomiting, as I was lying on my side. I laid there for several minutes until I began to feel better. I was still a little queasy and Chris felt better so we decided to call it quits. We packed up the gear and went home. I felt a little light headed for awhile but once that wore off I developed a headache. At home, my wife wanted to take me to the hospital but I insisted that I felt better and reassured her that I was ok.

I suspected carbon monoxide poisoning so I did some experimenting the next day. I setup the portable ice shelter in the garage and installed a carbon monoxide detector from the house. It is the kind that has an LED readout as well as an audible alarm. I fired up the portable propane heater and put it inside the shelter. After 20 minutes the carbon monoxide detector still indicated 0 ppm. I then fired up the propane lantern and put it inside the shelter. In less than five minutes the alarm activated and the detector pegged at 999 ppm. I was surprised. I assumed that because the lantern burned so bright and hot that it had to be efficient combustion and therefore little or no carbon monoxide. I installed new mantles and tried it again. Same thing, the CO detector maxed out at 999 ppm. I tried the same thing with another lantern that I have. This one is a duel fuel lantern. It will burn unleaded gasoline or the Coleman lantern fuel. I thought for sure that this would produce carbon monoxide also but was shocked when after 20 minutes the CO detector still indicated 0 ppm.

I don’t know why the propane lantern produced such high CO levels but the heater and dual fuel lantern didn’t. Also, I don’t know if the propane lantern has always produced such high CO and the insulation that I installed helped to keep the CO in the shelter. I do know that I will never use a lantern as a heat or light source inside an enclosed space again. I will instead use battery operated lights such as LED’s. I did buy a battery operated CO detector to use in the shelter as there really aren’t any better options for heat.

I wanted to share this because I know others like to ice fish or know someone who does and many of us use similar equipment. It also brings to light just how dangerous carbon monoxide really is, whether it is at home, recreation, or at work in confined spaces. A portable CO detector is very cheap insurance and costs only $20. I highly recommend one if you are using any type of equipment that uses combustion whether it vents inside or outside the shelter.

[tsande00]

I bought one last year for $25 or so at Walmart with the digital readout and it was money well spent. The peace of mind alone is worth the cost, especially when sleeping in the shack.