To play college hockey or go Canadian Jrs

[cbrooks]

This has been a hot topic lately. There was a good article in the GF Herald on Sunday focusing on the JT Miller who decommitted from UND a couple weeks ago. UND hasn't been the only program to have lost s recruit in the last few weeks to the OHL. Here's a link

http://undhockey.areavoices.com/?p=88254

Obviously this will be a bias article being Brad Schlossman(GF Herald writer) covers UND hockey. I'm interested in hearing from te people who think that yeah going Canadain majors is the logical choice for NHL bound players. Opinions...

[mulefarm]

Definately quickest way to the NHL. Since most NHL clubs are run by Canadians, they think major jr is ahead of college hockey in development. You get paid and can even sign an NHL contract and still play jrs. Also they have a college fund to pay for your school when done. I think more high profile U.S. kids are starting to go that route. Lower round picks and late developers are more apt to go the college route. Minnesota kids tend to go the college, but I see that changing in the next few yrs.

[OnAFly]

I read an article about this somewhere, I can remember where though. It basically said the same thing. The trade-off used to be one way gets you a degree (or close to one) and the other got experience closer to the NHL experience. Now, with the Junior level offering funding for college, more kids are moving that direction.

I do think Juniors is a higher level of play and is more like the NHL atmosphere.

[Bear55]

I do think Juniors is a higher level of play and is more like the NHL atmosphere.

The CHL route is a proven NHL development system, you can't argue with their success I would however argue that it is a higher level of play. I would even venture to say that best NCAA teams would be able to handle the top CHL teams in a 7 game series. There is a significant age gap between the NCAA and CHL teams so while the CHL teams might have more skilled players with NHL futures they are playing college players that are anywhere from 2 to 8 years older, that can make a huge difference at that age. There are plenty of cases where an NCAA freshman has struggled and moved on to the CHL and had instant success.

Like I said earlier they have a great development system but I don't think anyone can say with any certainty that if player X had gone to the CHL at a certain age they would be in the NHL, but instead player X chose the NCAA and did not develop. The truth is a great majority of players who make it to the NHL would make it regardless of the route they take. I also think the players and individual coaches should be given more credit for development success then the league the player chooses.

[Bear55]

It's also kind of funny you should bring this topic up, I was out golfing with a friend recently and we picked up a 3rd who just happened to be a scout for a CHL team, he was in town scouting out some of the local summer hockey camps. He had a list of current and future NCAA players he was talking to. So sure enough I come out and ask him if he is there to "steal" our college players and sure enough he was there to give him the CHL sales pitch.

So we go on to talk a little hockey and debate the CHL/College stuff, I asked him if he was having any luck recruiting out of MN, he said it was close to impossible so that was kind of fun to hear. I have to say I really like Canadians, he was a real nice guy and we had a good time out there. When we departed I asked him to take it easy on the Gopher players he was in contact with, I did however give him the green light to take as many Sioux players as possible.

he was a very nice guy and we actually h

[scsavre]

I agree with bear. I wouldn't say it is a higher level of play out there. One thing I do notice about the chl is the lack of experience and dicapline. The mistakes and blunders out there are off the charts. But that is how you ge better. You also notice that it is like a scrimmage for the studs out there. They dangle and try to do ridiculous things with the puck, that you don't always se in college.

So for your question. If you are a freak, vanek, parise type. It doesn't matter where u go. I you are top notch, id say the canadien juniors could be your quickest way to the show. But id say 2 years of ncaa could be your best way there. If you pick a good school.

I think of peter mueller, he was a big recruit for the gophs. Plaed juniors, he is in the show now and he is pretty good, not great. Not sure if his decision made a diference or not.

[Bear55]

They say the CHL is the quickest way to the NHL, that may be true but I think that can get overstated. Too many top end players come from all over the globe and they all took different paths to the NHL. The CHL is really a product of Canadian passion for hockey, no other country produces as much NHL talent as Canada so of course the CHL will benefit from that. The US has stepped up the past decade and really started to produce some talented hockey players, the CHL sees the NCAA as a threat so they have really ramped up their recruiting.

[cbrooks]

They say the CHL is the quickest way to the NHL, that may be true but I think that can get overstated. Too many top end players come from all over the globe and they all took different paths to the NHL. The CHL is really a product of Canadian passion for hockey, no other country produces as much NHL talent as Canada so of course the CHL will benefit from that. The US has stepped up the past decade and really started to produce some talented hockey players, the CHL sees the NCAA as a threat so they have really ramped up their recruiting.

Agree 100%. I think the NCAA is maybe a couple notches below the Canadian Jrs but college hockey has produce alot of players this decade...some are Canadians as well. I know UND has stolen a few from that league. Now they will probably steal a few from us here and there.

Bear you were golfing with the enemy. Can't blame those scouts for trying to get the best talent out there, thats there job. COllege hockey can always get proactive and tweek a few rules out there...to help draw the top caliber players.

[Bear55]

Agree 100%. I think the NCAA is maybe a couple notches below the Canadian Jrs but college hockey has produce alot of players this decade...some are Canadians as well. I know UND has stolen a few from that league. Now they will probably steal a few from us here and there.

I don't think any other league is even close to the CHL in producing talent and the # of NHL players they produce but again that is a product of Canada. I do feel the level of play in the NCAA is a step up, at least for the top end teams. If you take a player like Towes who put up 39 point in 42 games as a 17 year old in the NCAA. Now if you were to put him in the CHL he probably puts up some huge numbers that year, probably close to 100 in 70 games.

[cbrooks]

NHL watches as colleges wage war with Canadian junior hockey

by Craig Custance

from Sporting News

A The conference room at the Ann Arbor, Mich., Ice Cube was packed. Some of the best hockey-playing 14- and 15-year-olds sat up front, and they were listening closely.

Their parents lined the back of the room, some sitting, others leaning against a glass wall, straining to hear over the music from a rink as figure skaters practiced behind them.

They were listening because their children's future was at stake.

In the front of the room, college hockey coaches filled a row of chairs. Leading the talk was Red Berenson, the University of Michigan's coach, a Stanley Cup winner with the Montreal Canadiens and a former Regina Pats juniors player.

Considering its proximity to Canada, Michigan is the battleground for a fight that’s not new, but grows hotter each year. It’s one the NHL is also watching.

On one side is Berenson -- an All-America player at Michigan -- and his fellow college coaches, trying to convince North America's best young players to commit to college hockey. On the other side is Canada’s major junior powerhouse, the Canadian Hockey League, where elite Canadians -- and a growing number of Americans -- parlay junior careers into NHL careers.

Berenson looked at the young players in front of him and offered a warning against choosing junior hockey.

“You’re giving up the four best years of your life,” he said.

In the past two years, Berenson has lost two high-end goalies. In 2010, Jack Campbell picked the Ontario Hockey League's Windsor Spitfires over the Wolverines. This year, John Gibson is headed to OHL Kitchener after committing to Michigan.

But it’s not just Berenson’s problem. A recent Boston Globe story put the number of elite players breaking college commitments this year at nine.

Once they play Canadian junior hockey, they are ineligible to play NCAA hockey.

“I’m not prepared to say it’s an epidemic,” Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke told Sporting News. “The great majority of players who committed to college are going to college.”

Burke is a Providence College graduate.

But it’s the ones who have left that irk the world of college hockey because usually it’s the best -- guys like Cam Fowler, Patrick Kane and John Carlson.

The pull to play junior hockey is a strong one. The CHL, umbrella for the three Canadian leagues, has increased education options for its players, and according to CHL commissioner David Branch, the OHL has 263 players on scholarship in Canadian universities.

“The advent of the CHL player scholarship, which is second to none and supports the student athlete and his interest, has been a big, big factor,” Branch told Sporting News.

Unlike the NCAA, collegiate governing body Canadian Interuniversity Sport does not prohibit professional players.

Junior hockey facilities are outstanding, and the coaching is NHL-level. Players get a taste of life as a professional hockey player in the CHL, and most NHL teams would prefer their draft picks play junior hockey rather than college hockey. That reason alone often leads to changed minds after draft day.

To slow the trend, college coaches hired former NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly nearly two years ago. As the head of College Hockey, Inc., Kelly has hit the road to educate teenagers, like those in Ann Arbor, on the virtues of playing college hockey. His case is as strong as any major junior franchise.

Colleges also consistently develop NHL players, like Zach Parise (two years at North Dakota), Tim Thomas (four years at Vermont) and Jonathan Toews (two years at North Dakota). For the great majority of young players who never see the NHL, it gives them the backup plan of a college education, often at elite American universities. A degree from Harvard eases the pain of falling short on NHL dreams.

A lighter playing schedule also means college hockey players often have more time to devote to the gym.

Pittsburgh Penguins coach Dan Bylsma -- who spent four years at Bowling Green -- said he can usually distinguish the players who arrive via college.

“In a word, maturity. On-the-ice maturity,” Bylsma told Sporting News. “You get a player that’s had longer to develop physically and mentally.”

All things being equal, it’s a tough choice for a teenager to make.

College coaches contend all things aren’t equal. Far from it.

NCAA rules prohibit colleges from contacting recruits until June 15 after their sophomore year in high school. By then, if they’re good enough, they’ve already been aggressively pursued by junior programs.

Luke Moffatt was the second overall pick in the 2007 WHL draft by the Kelowna Rockets. At 14 years old, he had to make a decision that would impact the rest of his life. Long before college staffs could recruit him, he was visited in Arizona by Kelowna executives and coaches.

“I had it in my mind that I was going to college, but they have a way of trying to throw stuff at you,” said Moffatt, who eventually enrolled at Michigan. “They were totally professional about everything, they respected my decision… but they try to convince you whichever way they can up there.”

The junior programs get first crack at recruitment and increasingly face accusations that they're slanting the playing field with payments outside guidelines set by the CHL.

“The amount of money under the table in those leagues is rampant,” said RPI coach Seth Appert, who just ended his term as president of the American Hockey College Association. “That’s against NCAA rules, no matter how we slice it.”

Said Berenson: “I know some kids have been paid, there’s no question about that. I can’t tell you what the OHL allows or what they don’t allow. I know some kids that have been paid.”

In a conversation with Sporting News, one player weighing the decision confirmed he’d been offered a significant financial package to play in Canada, saying it’s not an easy thing to turn down.

“Everybody has their price,” he said.

It’s not a new accusation. Kelly has been publicly vocal in his belief that elite players are getting six-figure payments to lure them away from the NCAA. And, Kelly contends, it’s for more than just education.

Kelly shared a conversation he had with a player who broke a college commitment last summer to play in Quebec. Kelly asked him why he did it.

“He said because ‘they wrote me a check for $100,000 and I’m going to go out and buy a new car,’ ” Kelly said. “This kid never had any education anywhere in his radar.”

As the CHL has grown, Branch said the league has been deliberate in developing clear-cut policies on allowable benefits for players, which are largely for education and training allowances.

The OHL has hired an enforcement officer to investigate any allegations of impropriety, and the league’s competitive balance depends on a level playing field.

“I believe that 99 percent of the cases, no they are not" being paid under the table, Branch said of the CHL’s elite players. “I would not go as far to say that none have received benefits that exceed our permissible benefits. We are addressing it.”

The NHL is counting on it. In an effort to help develop elite young players, the league provides a grant to the CHL and to USA Hockey. This year, the league sent $9.8 million to the CHL earmarked for player development, education and wellness programs. It’s dispersed evenly among teams, with some getting bonuses for players drafted by the NHL.

It becomes an NHL issue if those franchises are then using that money to lure players to break their college commitments.

“Nobody has ever made that connection that we’re subsidizing under-the-table payments to players,” NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told Sporting News. “That’s a stretch to suggest that. I understand there are rumors that payments are made. I don’t think any specific payments have been substantiated or evidenced in any way.”

Still, the issue is one the NHL takes seriously.

“We’re going to ask for more vigilance on the part of the CHL to make sure payments are not being made,” Daly said.

Burke said there was recently a small group of NHL general managers who met to discuss the issue, and it’s something that they will continue to investigate.

“At some point, where there’s smoke there’s probably fire. I would like to get to the bottom of this,” he said. “If there are improper payments to a league we subsidize, I think we’re entitled to know what they are and bring them to a stop.”

The NHL also essentially funds College Hockey, Inc, a fact that isn’t lost on the CHL. Kelly’s aggressive pursuit to recruit not only American hockey players but Canadians as well, is leading to a turf war. This year alone, Kelly has done educational summits in Montreal, Toronto, Edmonton, Vancouver, Toronto and Ottawa.

Tyler Boldt is the manager of player development and recruitment in the Western Hockey League, and part of his job is educating young players, including correcting misinformation he believes circulates about his league. His position exists largely because of the effectiveness of Kelly’s campaign.

Yes, it’s a fight, but there’s a positive. Hockey-playing teenagers now are more educated about their options than any group before them. Glen Bates, a 16-year-old from Michigan, estimated that he’s attended at least 10 College Hockey, Inc. seminars.

“It’s increased people’s thirst for knowledge,” Boldt said.

Ultimately, that should lead to families making more informed decisions, whichever path they decide -- college or junior.

“They’re both wonderful ways to get (to the NHL), both viable ways to get there,” Burke said. “It’s a very personal situation and individual decision for a player. It’s hard. I think we’re fortunate in the NHL to get players in all three sources (including Europe). There’s great merit to all of them

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/20...l#ixzz1Wc039RNh

[Shorelunch]

Tough decisions to make if your a blue chip 15 yr old. First, you have to decide between HS or USHL/CHL/NAHL/USA hockey and then college vs. juniors. It's hard to argue against the talent the WCHA has pumped into the NHL. I suppose it depends on mom & dad and the kid and the argument for/against the practice and training (and education) in college vs. number of games in juniors.

[Bear55]

Good read, long battle ahead. We have been very lucky in MN to keep most of our players in college hockey. Not the case in Michigan or out East.

[cbrooks]

Read a blog that talks about the article I pasted above, another good read. It from unitedstatesof hockey.com

NCAA vs. CHL: The Best Thing You’ll Read About The Battle

Posted on August 31, 2011 by Chris Peters

It is not often on this blog that I’ll write a post based on a story written by someone else. I’ve always felt that the primary goal of USofH was to bring you news and opinion you couldn’t get just anywhere. However, the brilliant Craig Custance, national hockey writer for Sporting News (soon-to-be ESPN.com hockey writer), penned perhaps the most important piece written about the battle being waged between college hockey and the Canadian Hockey League. It is both revealing and thought provoking, making it a story that I would consider required reading. Also, reading the SN piece first might help you follow along with this post.

I’ve long been an admirer of Craig’s work. He often writes about the most important topics in the NHL and is both well connected and well respected in NHL circles. Because of that, this may become the definitive piece on the topic. Custance, a true journalist, covers the story from all angles fairly and thoroughly.

Most hockey fans are blissfully unaware of this unrest within hockey’s developmental structure and this article likely won’t change that, but the exposure it brings to a new audience is important. Not only that, but Custance dug deeper and provided a wealth of new information in the form of quotes from high-ranking NHL, CHL and NCAA officials.

One of the topics that I’ve purposely left out of my previous posts on the battle between North America’s top pro development routes was the allegation that some CHL teams are paying players under the table and in ridiculous amounts of money.

These allegations are nothing new. There’s often been rumors that certain CHL teams (not all) have struck big money deals with top American talent in order to lure those players away from the NCAA. Even some Canadian players that have expressed their desire to play in the NCAA have abruptly changed their minds, with rumors circulating that it was the almighty dollar and not which developmental route the player thought best for him to get to the NHL.

College Hockey, Inc. president Paul Kelly recently threw out the eye-popping $300,000 figure in an interview with Fluto Shinzawa of the Boston Globe.

There has been but one small problem, no one has had any concrete proof. It’s been a “their word against ours” situation

That’s what makes Custance’s story one of the more important pieces. He has a player, though anonymous, on the record as having been offered a “significant financial package” to play in the Canadian Hockey League.

To my knowledge, that is the first comment directly from a player in a major publication admitting he was offered money. Though it is an anonymous quote and there is no dollar amount included, it is a valid, if incomplete piece of evidence.

This is nothing surprising. One could assume that with all of the rumors about under-the-table payments, someone, someday would come forward. While the player’s admission is important, there was another crucial piece of information brought to light by Custance.

Based on comments from Bill Daly, deputy commissioner of the NHL and Brian Burke, GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs, the NHL is expecting more vigilance on the part of the CHL. Burke even went so far as to say a group of NHL GM’s are considering further investigation of the allegations.

The NHL provides money to both the CHL and USA Hockey earmarked for player development. That money trickles down to the various leagues, teams and grassroots programs under those umbrellas. Because of that significant financial grant from the NHL, the league wants to know what’s being done with that money.

Some have wondered if that money has been used to partially fund these under-the-table payments. Personally, I don’t believe they have, particularly with the figures being thrown around about what these players are receiving.

That said, with the amount of money the NHL gives the CHL, it has a right to know where that money is going and whether or not it’s being used for its intended purpose.

Burke seemed particularly interested in the piece. If you haven’t read it yet, be sure to see what Burke has to say about this, as he took a pretty hard line on what he thinks of these alleged under-the-table payments.

Burke also talked about putting a stop to the alleged under-the-table payments, which the NCAA camp has to love. As Kelly pointed out in the Boston Globe piece, that’s a big factor in losing top-end American players. So the playing field is leveled to a degree.

By stopping under-the-table payments, the NCAA can’t be used as a bargaining chip anymore, either. How often have we seen players use the threat of going to the NCAA to steer their way into getting drafted by their preferred CHL team? It’s pretty much annual in the OHL.

The only question left, will the NHL effectively put a stop to this practice? The OHL has apparently been trying to do something about it by hiring a “watchdog,” but I’m not sure what he’s been watching. Dave Branch told The Pipeline Show Tuesday night that there has been nothing of consequence discovered, yet the rumors have only intensified regarding player payments since the hiring of Ken Miller as the OHL Enforcement Officer in 2010. Branch has said he hopes to speak with Kelly in order to find out more about the allegations Kelly made in the Boston Globe piece and I’m sure Kelly’s latest allegation of a $100,000 payout made to a prospect in Quebec (not sure if that is specific to the Remparts or the QMJHL in general) brought to light in Custance’s piece.

At the end of the day, whether a player gets payed or not, the benefits of choosing one route over another remain the same. The competition, schedule, etc., all remain as is. However, if the NHL sees fit to find a way to put a stop to these alleged under-the-table payments, perhaps the CHL and NCAA routes will be chosen mainly on the merits of the development they afford a prospect. The way it should be.