Overharvest on TV

[hawgchaser]

I had the TV on an outdoor network and walked through the TV room at the end of the show Angling the Great Lakes. This episode was about night fishing walleye on Lake Erie, and I caught only the tale end summary. Two guys (Gary Aker and Brian Smith) caught 8 walleye, kept them all for eating, weighed the cooler of fish and it weighed 56 lb. and included a 32" and a 30" walleye. Sponsors of the show are American Legacy, Lake of the Woods Tourism, Niagara USA, Culver Marina, Shorelander, Browning Taxidermy, Aker Outdoor Products, and Bronson. I am sure that the sponsors have no direct responsibility for what I consider to be a gross devaluing of the walleye resource. Nonetheless, I will be writing to each of the sponsors promising what will be my own personal boycott of the sponsors until this show makes some kind of "formal" statement in support of selective harvest in each episode and the actions of the participants in the show demonstrate the same intent. I invite any of you who share this sentiment to do likewise.

[LMITOUT]

That's really not all that uncommon for Lake Erie.

[cbrooks]

I'm surprise the producers of the show would air that part of the segment. This won't go over too well with some anglers

[Het]

I see it all the time, being that Lake Erie is my home waters. Personally, I won't keep any walleyes over 25", which may be on the lower end of trophy status in most lakes, but has become an 'average' fish on Erie. I guide, as well, and try to 'convince' my clients to keep only one bigger fish if they intend to put one on the wall. Most, if not all, comply, and would rather keep a limit of eaters than fill the box with big fish.

I went ot a weigh in for a local circuit last year, and it was a bit depressing. The circuit was asking for the anglers to donate their fish. At the end of the weigh in, they had ten very large cooloers full of eight to twelve pounders, and couldn't even close the lids on the coolers. 43 pounds won the tourney (five fish).

Next week, we have an FLW coming to town, with 150 boats looking for the big girls for three days. There is also a local circuit, with fifty boats scheduled for the weekend. The following week, the MWC hits town (over 100 boats) for two days, with another local circuit with fifty boats following the next weekend.

The DNR claims that the walleye population cannot be hurt by rod and reel. Commercial netting for walleyes was stopped in 1984, which was good.

It's kinda reached the 'whatya gonna do' status.

[hawgchaser]

I've fished Lake Erie and the Detroit River for eyes & smallies at least once and often times twice a year for 15 years now and am well aware what a phenomenal fishery you have. My indignation arises from my belief that people (and the sponsors) who choose to showcase their skills to a broad audience have a responsibility to be exemplars as far as conservation and resource stewardship. This example did not meet my criteria for responsible stewardship. 56 lb. of walleye for 2 people seems excessive regardless of the fishery that gives up the harvest. I hope that one of Doug Aker's "outdoor products" is an extra strength antacid.

[Het]

I get ya. It would have left a warmer and fuzzier feeling to see them gingerly release the fish, for sure.

I remember the first time I 'persuaded' a client to release an eleven pounder. I asked if he intended to keep it or release it. He said he was keeping it, being that it was his personal best, but was waiting for a twelve pounder before one went on the wall. I explained to him, that after the fish was properly filleted and zippered, with all the red meat removed, he would yield approximately the same amount of meat as a five pounder. We snapped some pictures, and he released the fish. He said it gave him goose bumps to release such a fish, and thanked me over and over for 'talking him into it'. He's been out on my boat multiple times since, and has thanked me for his new outlook on selective harvest, which he has passed on to friends of his.

[hawgchaser]

Het, Maybe my zealousness for selective harvest is an attempt make up for my growing up years (I'm in my 60s) when selective harvest wasn't even a consideration. It took years to get my two main fishing partners to finally convert and now they are often the ones first suggesting release. My standard response to the question of releasing a prime "breeder" was..."It's up to you. Do you want two filets tonight or several thousand eggs in a few months." "Experts" have more potential influence in encouraging stewardship in 1/2 hour than I have in a lifetime.

BTW, As a kid, when we studied Lake Erie, it was considered a "dead" body of water. "sustainable fishery" is a snapshot term...not an unalterable condition.

[Het]

I've been fishing Erie since '76. I remember when you were lucky to get one limit between three guys, and times when 50-60 walleye days were common (skill level not included).

Those not familiar with the lake seem to think that 10+ pound fish are quite coomon, and all walleyes will eventually grow to that weight. My buddy is one of the head biologists for ODNR. Test nets have proven that there are still 5,6, and 7 year old fish that have not reached 20" yet. This leads me, and others, to believe that true, trophy walleyes have certain genes that not all fish possess to reach 'trophy' status. Kinda like not all bucks running around the woods will reach 'hole in the horn' status. A lot of popele are also under the assumption that bigger, older female's eggs are not viable. Studies by the ODNR have proved that those fishs' eggs are every bit as viable as the younger, 3-4 pounder's eggs. It is also fact that the bigger the fish, the more eggs they'll lay.

[hawgchaser]

I'm talking "dead" and in the 1950's when the sea lamprey was the king species and the auto & steel industries used the lake as a cheap/convenient waste dump. As objectionable as they sometimes are, tree-huggers and enviros can prove useful at times.

[JimBuck]

I saw an episode of John Gillespie's show a few months back and they were fishing the cracks on Erie for eyeballs. They closed the episode standing next to the pile of fish that included some that had to be pushing 28+. I know I was taken back by the amount of bigger fish harvested. Looked like an absolute blast fishing those cracks though.

[jellio]

Did these guys do anything illegal or are you just upset they kept some fish with in the laws allowed.

[pulleye16]

Did these guys do anything illegal or are you just upset they kept some fish with in the laws allowed.

+1....but hey, if you don't like it then you have every right to boycott them.

[BobT]

Seeing the photos of catches from Lake Osakis tells me that there was a time when similar catches were quite common and possible the norm. Not today. Today, the lake has to be put under special regulations and is in the process of receiving special attention in an attempt to restore the fishery to some level of what it once was.

Apparently we don't learn from our past mistakes very well.

[JohnMickish]

These guys are filming a show to showcase what the lake can do, and is paid for by people that want to see the big fish on TV in the hopes that it attracts visitors. If they showed nothing but 14" fish what would be the chances that you would want to go there?

Lake Erie is a special lake in that it can put out some monster fish and until they put slots on there, they did nothing wrong.

[Stick in Mud]

"As objectionable as they sometimes are, tree-huggers and enviros can prove useful at times."

This is an interesting sentiment....and I do think it behooves many of us outdoorsmen to recognize the wonderful things that "tree huggers and enviros" have helped to make available to us. Obviously, we sportsmen have been influential, too. It takes all kinds, as my mom used to say, and I also think that the catch-and-release trend among anglers, especially bass, muskie, and walleye anglers, might just qualify a few of us for the "enviro" label we so often disparage. Just my .02.

Carmike

[BobT]

These guys are filming a show to showcase what the lake can do, and is paid for by people that want to see the big fish on TV in the hopes that it attracts visitors. If they showed nothing but 14" fish what would be the chances that you would want to go there?

Lake Erie is a special lake in that it can put out some monster fish and until they put slots on there, they did nothing wrong.

What you say is correct except for one thing. The OP pointed out that the hosts kept those fish rather than releasing them. The don't need to keep them in order to sell the show or advertise for their sponsors.

[RumRiverRat]

Did these guys do anything illegal or are you just upset they kept some fish with in the laws allowed.

That is a great question.

[reinhard1]

we had a discussion on a similiar topic on a certain body of water, asking why there are more eaters than trophy's in that body of water on a consistant basis. this lake is rarely stocked with walleys and reproduces on it's own very well. so i called the dnr and they told me it's basicly in the genes of the walleys there. so a larger walley in this lake would be much older than a walley of the same size in mille lacs for example.

it had nothing to do with forage available as i and others thought. as for john gillespe, i like his show. good luck.

[Ed Carlson]

That's really not all that uncommon for Lake Erie.

Agreed, this is very common there.

They perceive the upper weight class's of walleye to be in abundance over the up and comer's, so they see it as the best Selective Harvest practice to thin them out.

Selective Harvest is a methodology that encourages smart harvest to insure the longevity and overall health of a fishers...in theory anyway.

In some cases on some waters larger fish may be the smart fish to harvest to protect the forage base.

Slots need to be system specific to work.

[LMITOUT]

Anybody see the top weights after two days from the FLW yesterday on Erie? 10 fish for 80+ pounds. Quite the average!

[hawgchaser]

The Michigan DNR estimates the Lake Erie walleye population has decreased by 75% in the past 6 years. Searches I've done indicate that most "experts" In Michigan, Ohio and Ontario anticipate the need to impose slot limits and reduced possession limits in the very near future. With that as a background, I find no reason to conclude that keeping a limit of fish averaging 7lb. per fish can be considered responsible or ethical even if it is legal. I do not personally believe that one should assume that legal behavior is necessarily ethical behavior. Historically, laws have been imposed to regulate behavior when personal ethics are either lacking or insufficient in controlling a society. I believe future laws regulating Lake Erie fishing will come, in part, as a result of sportsmen living in the luxury of the moment while ignoring the needs of the future.

Thanks for your responses.

[Het]

Anybody see the top weights from the FLW yesterday on Erie? 10 fish for 80+ pounds. Quite the average!

Tom Keenan brought 46.6 pounds for five fish in yesterday, for a 9.3 pound average.

A guy I know, Jeff Graves, fished his first FLW this weekend, and won it with 117.3 pounds. 40.1 on day one, 42.4 yesterday, and 34.8 today.

[cbrooks]

Unreal the average size those fish are. What's consider a trophy for lake erie? It sounds like 10 lbers are common there.

[Het]

The Michigan DNR estimates the Lake Erie walleye population has decreased by 75% in the past 6 years.

I've heard nothing like that, and my buddy is a biologist for the Lake Erie ODNR.

We've heard for the last three years that the limit was dropping to 4 fish throughout the whole season. When all of the test nets are done, the ODNR states that the population does show that a decrease in the limit is needed. I'm hoping, and I think, that they have the state of the lake in their best interests.

They are claiming that the hatch for '07 & '09 is better than they had anticipated. I know that I had multiple trips last year when we caught in excess of thirty fish that were not of legal size. A good sign, for sure.

[Comit 2]

They called it paradise, I don't know why. You call someplace paradise, kiss it goodby!

Don Henley