Might be time to give them a break

[Scott M]

Back to the subject. This is from Doug Smith's story in yesterday's Star Tribune about late season pheasant hunting after the big storm last weekend:

Quote:

Also, some Minnesota hunters have expressed concern that late-season hunting pushes hens from good cover, increasing their vulnerability. But there are no studies to support that theory, said Kurt Haroldson, DNR pheasant biologist.

"When conditions are really bad, there's probably not that many hunters out," he said.

The biggest cause of hen mortality is predation, he said.

I think a wildlife biologist would tell you what happens when dogs and snowmobile drivers chase deer, they have to struggle with snow crusts, long legs, hoofs with small surface area that break through the snow. Pheasants on the other hand can fly, take cover, walk on snow crusts when hunted. Not analogous IMO.

[CaptainMusky]

I think a wildlife biologist would tell you what happens when dogs and snowmobile drivers chase deer, they have to struggle with snow crusts, long legs, hoofs with small surface area that break through the snow. Pheasants on the other hand can fly, take cover, walk on snow crusts when hunted. Not analogous IMO.

Chasing deer with a snowmobile? Actually, the person who originally brought this up was commenting on just the snowmobile traveling along a trail etc causing excessive stress on deer, NOT chasing them. Obviously this would be ridiculous, illegal and completely unsportsmanlike.

If you are concerned about dogs chasing deer in the snow, what effect do you think coyotes have? They are equally adept at chasing deer through deep snow and I would be much more worried about them than dogs because they travel in groups usually.

Personally I think this whole thread has gotten out of hand. You have obvious people who have a bone to pick with snowmobilers and think that all they do is chase wild game and then you have others who are providing data from biologists which has been supported for years that you CANNOT overhunt roosters.

Yeah the snow is deep in some areas. Will an individual hunter have a dramatic affect on next years pheasant hunter by taking his loyal hunting companion for a walk through the waist high drifts in the hopes to bag a couple roosters? NO! Get out there an hunt, if you are worried about what the impact might be, stay home. Simple as that. The seasons and limits are what they are for many reasons. I plan to strap on some snowshoes and hit some fields this weekend.

[Scott M]

Sorry, I poorly worded that CM. My point was the physiological differences of pheasants and deer alone are not the same. I wasn't intending to take a shot at snowmobile operators, I haven't heard of snowmobilers ticketed for deer harassment. However I have heard of domestic dog owners being ticketed for deer harassment. I'd be more worried about dogs killing and weakening deer for sport than coyotes killing to eat.

But I agree, to each their own. If you think you are helping by not hunting the birds, stay home.

[muc33]

Agree'd, and as much as I agree with many of the points, what really to me is a determining factor of most any season, or seasons is habitat. The "field of dreams" method really does work in wildlife. If you build it, they will come. Now are there many factors to keeping it up, proper cover, predator control ect. yes, but if you don't have the habitat, you have none of that to worry about. You first must have the habitat. And you can always improve on that habitat with the other features. It's like big deer, why do groves with food plots, less pressure and cover have bigger deer, well hello, all of the above contribute to that, but first you have to have that spot and those features to keep them.

[Surface Tension]

If you jump a hen from heavy cover guess what, she probably hasn't been seen another hunter for some time and she flies away to the next patch of cover. Heck, when I walk from the front door to my truck do you think I'm putting stress on the Chickadee I scare out of the tree?

Deer are on a starvation diet come winter. On a good year they have enough fat reserves to get them through winter.

A deer getting off the trail isn't running a mile to escape from you. Its just putting on a little distance and more then not a block away is all they need.

Chasing dogs are another matter, they don't have to catch a deer to kill them, the distance is stress and loss of stored fat.

[BLACKJACK]

Thanks for the pictures of the feeders Landdr, a picture is worth a 1000 words. I've always wondered if pheasants would go 'thru the wire' to get to those feeders but your pictures prove they work, I may have to try something along those lines.

Nowadays I've started using the feeders with timers on them, up on stilts, and I just have the timers go off 3-5 times during the day, so I'm feeding pheasants, then the deer clean up at night. I may have to get some of that 6x6 wire and try it.

Interesting that you put your feeders in heavy cover, theres always a debate from people, where should feeders be put? If placed in heavy cover, does it also provide cover and a smorgasbord for predators? We all know that feeders in the open are not good. I usually compromise and place my feeders about 25 feet from cover.

Going to be a real tough winter on pheasants again. I drove 55 yesterday from Belgrade to Watkins and saw several big groups of pheasants up scratching in the fields, a long ways from cover.

[BLACKJACK]

Regarding predators...

Hands down the most common in the traps are cats.

Land Dr

My neighbor has a grey cat, everytime I get over there I comment on how nice 'Lucky' looks, finally he asked my why I called him Lucky, and I tell him the story about how my wife let Lucky out of my live trap when I was gone one time, she couldn't take the meowing. He used up 8 of his 9 lives right there!!

[LandDr]

Lucky he is!

I find the thicker cover makes it harder for the predators to get thru as well as it is immediate escape cover. Also, the birds are not as visible to predators.

I don't agree with the arguement of the feeder setting up a predator feeding station. I don't think I have ever seen a pile of feathers by any of my feeders...but I have seen many piles along roads, in fields or any other open areas. I am not as worried about ground predators in the winter...birds can get away from them for the most part. The avian predators however...they are the silent killers and the birds don't even know its coming. Keep the birds in the thick cover and they will be much more protected from avian predators.

Yes...I reming people all the time that seeing birds out in the open is not a good thing. It is nice seeing all the birds...but it tells me right away the birds have lost their food sources near their winter cover and are now traveling farther out...which increases exposure to predators.

More snow on the way...

Land Dr

[BLACKJACK]

The avian predators however...they are the silent killers and the birds don't even know its coming. Keep the birds in the thick cover and they will be much more protected from avian predators.

Land Dr

Really, how serious are avian predators on pheasants?

Owls hunt at night, pheasants are tucked away by then. This time of year hawks have migrated, there are very few around. I have a pheasant feeder below my house, halfway between a spruce patch and a willow patch, its halfway between the 40 yard gap. There is also a large willow at the edge, been debating whether it should be cut down, "its a hawk perch, you know" - but I never see hawks perched there!! Yeah I know I can't watch that tree 24/7 but if they were having any luck from that tree, they'd be there all the time, or I'd at least see them on the weekends.

How serious are avian predators on pheasants?

[LandDr]

Owls are very active in the mornings and evenings...I see them often during deer hunting...and the pheasants are also very active at that time.

Pope County Pheasants Restoration did a study a few years back where they released something like 30 pheasants with radio receivers on them. They found almost all of the receivers in or below a Great Horned Owl nest! Along with a bunch of duck heads and other remains.

Amazing!

Now...keep in mind that these were released birds, not wild birds, so they were probably easier prey. But still goes to show how efficient of a hunter an owl can be. Their life depends on it!

Land Dr

[MNpurple]

I walked a private cattail slough this weekend and found 11 places where there was nothing but a pile of hen feathers. The snow is just so deep in the sloughs that although they provide some cover, the birds really cant stay down amongst the stems to hide. About half of the feather piles had a head laying next to them. IS this a great horned or a barred? In the SW,the fields actually are very thin with snow so I dont think food is an issue, but the security cover is already filled in. Its not shaping up real good.

As far as predator control, I spooked a raccoon out of some cattails and some #2 steel finished the rest and a little while later some copper plated #5s ended the winter early for a coyote and 1 rooster

[LandDr]

It could be either of those owls but I see more Great Horned around my place.

I have never been a big fan of cattails as being preached as the "winter cover of choice". Cattails are good...but they can become death traps on a tough year. The best are well designed shelterbelts...and even better is to design the shelterbelt to protect the cattails...and then load it up with food.

One thing to consider...I have seen pile of feathers by cattails and thought that some predator killed them all. But upon further observation, a coyote pulled the birds out of a snow bank where they were already frozen in dead. There was still one bird still in the snow froze...so the coyote just found them dead.

More snow on the way...I am going to check my feeders later this week just to make sure they are all looking good and to check on the birds. I will take a camera along if I can post any good photos.

Land Dr

[BLACKJACK]

I have never been a big fan of cattails as being preached as the "winter cover of choice". Cattails are good...but they can become death traps on a tough year. The best are well designed shelterbelts...and even better is to design the shelterbelt to protect the cattails...and then load it up with food.

Land Dr

Two years ago I planted a bunch of schrubs, cedars, and spruces on the NW corner of a big cattail slough with that in mind. Hopefully in 10 years it will do the trick. Right now most of the cattails are all snowed in, that big wind 2 weeks ago, and more snow on top, has really packed it in.