organization to help Northern Pike fishery

[fatfinger]

after reading all these post on this thread makes me wonder if anyone still likes to eat fish anymore.i feel like noses get turned up at those of us that do sometimes.i thought merkman made himself abundantly clear on his first few posts.as long as fish are RESPONSIBLY harvested by any legal means i dont see a problem IMO.i wouldnt believe anyone posting on here is involved with illegal harvesting or irresponsibe fishing.if your here posting, then you already care a great deal for fishing & probably are a stand up angler.i think thats why this is a heated topic.

it seems as if though folks on this thread should start a pike organization that includes all methods of harvest.id join.by the way- i dont spear & never have.i might try it someday tho & definately would love the oppertunity to do so.

[cbrooks]

One of the bigger problems is slots regulations with the people who spear. It seems those two can't go hand in hand or can they? If there can be a solution there then maybe some progression can happen.

[merkman]

i dont spear & never have.i might try it someday tho & definately would love the oppertunity to do so.

Just look me up once the water gets hard later this year.

I always have at least one shack set up and another mobile one.

Double or single you can spear alone, with me, or bring a friend.

I can set you up for free if you want to try it for a day.

All I ask is that you are legal when using my equipment.

[fatfinger]

merkman-that would be grand.thanks for the invite.

cbrooks-i understand the slot/spearing problem.perhaps if there is a solution to be found it could come from such debates as this.sometimes slots arent so helpful in certain situations-like if a tradtional angler fataly hooks a fish in the slot.you have to release it & watch it go belly up, now you just killed a fish that was protected but it goes to waste because you cant redeem its loss by eating it.sure seagulls mite get it.ship happens.not saying its the same thing but kinda is.not saying spearers should be exempt but i think the issue needs to be looked at & addressed from unbiased views.of course spearers want to be able to fish legally on slot lakes.but there should be some sort of consideration as to there method while still protecting fish.im ramblin hear but i hope you get my gist.

[cbrooks]

Yeah I get what your getting at. Same dead fish different method. Thats been discuss plenty of times through other topics like this one this past year. Eventually I'm hoping to hear an idea that could work. Its a tough call and I guess the best answer is to have a underwater measurement reference and have good judgement when you drop the spear. I guess a good comparsion would be waterfowl hunting know what bird specie your shooting before you pull the trigger.

[merkman]

I guess the best answer is to have a underwater measurement reference and have good judgement when you drop the spear.

But just how do you pinch the tail on a live fish?

And be 100% right 100% of the time?

That is a hard one indeed.

[cbrooks]

Yeah I know you mention that ealier. It doesn't look like there's a full proof way of spearing on slot lakes. How good are you judging a fishes length in the water. I know whenever I see a muskie follow in I always add 4 or 6 inches. The fish just look bigger in the water to me.

[merkman]

Yeah I know you mention that ealier. It doesn't look like there's a full proof way of spearing on slot lakes. How good are you judging a fishes length in the water. I know whenever I see a muskie follow in I always add 4 or 6 inches. The fish just look bigger in the water to me.

It is about the same for darkhouse spearing.

The more you do it the better your guesses are.

But there are some "surprises"

If I decide to harvest a pike I guess the length before I throw the spear.

Then bring it up and measure it.

Sometimes I am right on; sometimes I am off a bit either way.

Next time you are out muskie fishing guess the length of the fish before you measure it and see how close you can get.

[cbrooks]

Does the under water measurement help any? You guys had a name for this I forget what you call it.

I'm usually of a couple inches when its in the net.

[merkman]

Does the under water measurement help any? You guys had a name for this I forget what you call it.

In Wisconsin they are allowed to place pvc pipe down the hole to get a better idea of the length of the fish.

I have checked with the MnDNR and it is illegal to put anything down the hole even if you pick it up afterwards while darkhouse spearing, so that is not an option for Minnesota Darkhouse Spearers.

[fatfinger]

But just how do you pinch the tail on a live fish?

very carefully. ;)sorry- i couldnt resist.

[cbrooks]

Really. I thought that method was pretty clever myself.

[merkman]

Here is the MnDNR's advice

Quote:

If the distance from a pike’s snout to the start of the gills is 6.2 inches, you can be about 98% sure that the northern pike is shorter than 30 inches. Of course, if this distance is less than 6.2 inches, you can be quite certain that the pike does not exceed 30 inches.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/areas/fisheries/baudette/pikespearing.html

Of course that page says you can use the PVC pipe.

But St Paul says no.

For the top slot it is easy.

If you just pooooooooped yourself it is over the top slot.

[cbrooks]

I see what you mean about the bottom part of the slot. So if a lake had a slot limit would you rather have it 26 to 40 inches or 24 to 36 inches. I think LOW has a 30 to 40 inch slot with that slot you could work with more being the bottom part being so high. I don't know I'm just throwing some numbers and getting an idea.

[merkman]

I see what you mean about the bottom part of the slot. So if a lake had a slot limit would you rather have it 26 to 40 inches or 24 to 36 inches. I think LOW has a 30 to 40 inch slot with that slot you could work with more being the bottom part being so high. I don't know I'm just throwing some numbers and getting an idea.

You have to get "buy in" that there even is a problem before you start throwing ideas around. Heck the workable solution may not even involve moving the slot. But, until the key players admit that there is a problem you are just spittin in the wind. You can't solution for a problem that in their eyes does not exist.

[cbrooks]

Merk, I think your organization needs to find away to work with the DNR in my opinion. I know what MDHA feels about the DNR. Heard it at the meeting in Cass lake meeting this winter. Jefferyd had some good post on how he dealt with azgf. Maybe there should be another round table on the long range plan. Please, I'm not argruing just take it for what its worth.Sincerely Good luck I really mean it. I think everybody would benefit from this. Give the DNR another shot.

[foulpole18]

What Merkman is saying that to him and the MDAA, any slot on any lake is unacceptable. That is the problem in his eyes.

I bet more people have a problem with his view on slots, than acually having slots on lakes. No science Merk, just an observation of what I see and hear.

[Muskiefool]

A old fella once told me "Some people are like horses wearing blinders; they can look, but they will never see".

[Gordie]

How would you feel about spearing that big cat on you avatar Elwood? Would you honestly try for a bigger one?

I wouldnt spear a catfish to me its the only true game fish left in this state besides it was released and I will try and catch it next year and hope its a state record.

MF then there the people that are just the oppisite of that also. They can see but never look.

[merkman]

Merk, I think your organization needs to find away to work with the DNR in my opinion. I know what MDHA feels about the DNR. Heard it at the meeting in Cass lake meeting this winter. Jefferyd had some good post on how he dealt with azgf. Maybe there should be another round table on the long range plan. Please, I'm not argruing just take it for what its worth.Sincerely Good luck I really mean it. I think everybody would benefit from this. Give the DNR another shot.

If I had that kind of power over the MDAA and Muskies Inc we wouldn't need the MnDNR or MN Legislature to parent us grown sportsmen on both sides though our little temper tantrums.

But of course we are back to the what if's.

It would be nice if we as fellow sportsmen could act as grown adults, but politics always seems to bring out the inner child in everyone.

It does seem funny that no one wanted the MDAA representation at these meetings but as soon as they are not there everyone claims they should come back?

Now, I don't know the dealings that went on behind closed doors, what was said under this ones or that ones breath, or the general working atmosphere of these MnDNR meetings. But if these forums are any indicator, I don't think it would be a stretch to call it a "hostile work environment"

As an honest sportsman, volunteering your time to ensure a better northern pike fishery, you can only be called a dirty dog and kicked into the corner so many times before you decide this may not be the best place to get things done.

A wise old man once said,

"You don't go to the park to have a picnic and put your blanket down next to the only pile of dog p00 in the field."

An even wiser man (Albert Einstein) famously defined insanity as

"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

It's not like the Minnesota Darkhouse and Angling Association gave up on the resource, they just got tired of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[foulpole18]

You quote Einstein's definition of insanity to compare you working with the DNR. Maybe that qoute should also be used to your goal of having no slot limits on any lakes. That sounds insane to me. Let's harvest all the large pike so we can have all lakes full of hammerhandles. Then what would you throw spears at Merk?God knows you dont spear many 22" pike. That seems to me like a sure fire way to kill spearing as a method of harvest. It also sounds like a way to ruin quality fishing opportunities for all species.

[cbrooks]

Merk, I don't know how to answer all that. There's no doubt there is a history of these organization clashing(MDHA and Muskie inc witch I'm a memeber of). I was doing alot of what if but on the other hand its a new day. We don't have to continue clashing. I guess thats what this orginal topic is about bringing people together that love to fish Esox and forming an organization to represent them. I don't think the answer is for the two groups to keep going at each other like this. i don't want to take off from work early this winter so I can attend a town hall meeting at Cass Lake on opening up spearing on that lake. This can't keep happening. I'm not blaming the spearers or the muskie nuts this has been happening longer than I fished. We need to find away to work together.

[merkman]

We need to find away to work together.

+1

Make it happen.

You will have a strong ally in darkhouse spearing sportsmen if you treat them like the sportsmen they are, promote rational change for the good of the fishery (not your ego), and don't continue to ban their sport.

But, I just want to let you know, if your end goal is to make the northern pike into a summer only catch and release only species like the muskie, don't expect to do it without a fight.

Good Luck!!

[reinhard1]

who is banning spearing? unless i missed it nobody on the former posts indicated that. last i looked you can spear in the majority of lakes that contain pike. what, you want all the lakes to bo open with no slot limits? if thats what you want its not going to happen. if you want reason to prevail, and changes to come about you must have people in clubs or orginizations to have leaders with open minds and facts to present to an opposing party or for example the dnr. changes are done step by step. there is give and take. there have been some long excelent posts here and some good short ones. slot limits work, and this is fact not opinion,they are for the future for you and everyone else especialy our children. i would argue in defense of spearing as long as its done with respect of our fishery. i know you will highlight some of this so highlight this as well- i urge everyone to please return large predetors back to the water. this is what i do i urge people to do it NOT DEMAND it. everyone has bought a licence and what is leagal is theirs. i'm retired and i would be a member of a organization the would combine both spearfisherman and anglers. i have been a member of northerns inc. years ago. i dont know how they are now but at that time it became a good ol boys club for the who knows who crowd. the only time you were recognized was when dues were due and volunteers were needed. i paid my dues, did my volunteer work and after a couple years i left. same with my political party. i was active,volunteered, became a precinct chairman and soon figured out your input was not wanted only leg work. so now i do my own leg work for my own causes. anyway i promised myself i would not respond to anymore of these posts but here it is. merk, nothing personal, i would sit and have a beer with you anyday and talk about it, so please take a deeeeeeeep breath and relax. good luck.

[smnduck]

Like any outdoor activity,.... hunting, fishing, camping, spearing will have limitations on when, where, and what you can spear.

I don't think there would be the stink there is if spearing pike had a size limit. say no fish over 30" can be speared but a possesion limit of 6 per day for spearers. Win Win for everyone sprearers get to practice the sport and eat fish while helping fisheries take out the small pike. The lakes win buy keeping the big predators in the lake to do their job while allow a trophey fishery to flurish. I think the big stink comes from too many unethical spearers taken large fish year after year and wrecking lakes. It is not a myth as to the damage that a couple bad spearers can do to a lake.

By the way Elwood, I think a lot more people in the state look at a Northern as a game fish before a catfish. More power to you in your qwest for a record fish, but remember that fish would not be there with a spear behind the head.