Just want to know why??

[Big Dave2]

I do think that there are ROWs that could be opened up to ATV travel especially ROWs that could connect trails that are open to ATVs. Then again ownership and granting permission is another issue. There are not many landowners that'll allow ATV travel.

How many ATV clubs are knocking on doors to do just that?

If by ROW's you mean right of ways, why would there be any issues with ownership or granting permission? Thats what a ditch is, a right of way.

Lots of ATV clubs are trying harder than you think to get trails on the ground, even in the southern part of the state. it's not an easy battle by any means but there is a lot of effort being put forth by a few individuals. You should join your local club and find out what they are doing.

[BobT]

Quote:

I never said it was a money making venture, what I said was that it is your CHOICE to enter these programs and you are compensated for them when you do so please don't make it sound like you are donating land for habitat.

Just remember to thank those farmers that enroll for most of them could probably triple the income by farming the land themselves rather than setting it aside so in that case yes, they are donating to some degree.

[Dave S]

This is starting to stray off topic and tunring into a post about farming practices. Let's keep it on topic.

Thanks

[LightningBG]

Lets just say for argument sake that all ditches were open to ATV travel.

Do you think folks would go around the mud or do you think they'd hit it?

There is a time and place to go muddling, ditches aren't one of them.

I totally agree with that. When I ride an ATV, first thing I look for is some mud. (I dont ride ditches at all, I ride all private property).

And, if we wanted to compare to snowmobiles, which I do ride ditches occasionally. On a sled, when the conditions get poor (low snow, ruts, etc) people avoid it like the plague and the ditch get little use until it snows again. With an ATV and mud, the ditch gets used when its at its most vulnerable state (muddy soft ground).

FYI - I'm not anti ATV in any way, I love riding. Just trying to come up with some logic to answer the question.

[Big Dave2]

Just remember to thank those farmers that enroll for most of them could probably triple the income by farming the land themselves rather than setting it aside so in that case yes, they are donating to some degree.

I guess I'll bite my tongue on this one.

[Cowhead]

Ok i dont own a sled but speaking of about them who is responsible for giving up land to run trails from town to town and have the big fancy groomers go over them once or twice a week and put up all the signs and markers for the trails?? but yet a ATV cant ride in a ditch but everyone gives a left leg to maintain a sled trail? I have nothing against sleds by any means but i mean but people that own sleds are disrespectfull too and by that i mean driving thru yards in town to get out of town and taking the carbides and studs across driveways and sidewalks and marking them all up and then tearing up lawns as they are not so easy on the throttle? so who yells at them nobody! so why do atv users have such a bad rap and nobody wants to aid us in places to ride? its just like anything you take something away from someone they are going to want it more you take away places to ride were bound to break a law eventually rather than watch our toys sit in the garage and collect dust untill we can find a park to ride in and well where im from there arent many.

[Big Dave2]

Ok i dont own a sled but speaking of about them who is responsible for giving up land to run trails from town to town and have the big fancy groomers go over them once or twice a week and put up all the signs and markers for the trails?? but yet a ATV cant ride in a ditch but everyone gives a left leg to maintain a sled trail? I have nothing against sleds by any means but i mean but people that own sleds are disrespectfull too and by that i mean driving thru yards in town to get out of town and taking the carbides and studs across driveways and sidewalks and marking them all up and then tearing up lawns as they are not so easy on the throttle? so who yells at them nobody! so why do atv users have such a bad rap and nobody wants to aid us in places to ride? its just like anything you take something away from someone they are going to want it more you take away places to ride were bound to break a law eventually rather than watch our toys sit in the garage and collect dust untill we can find a park to ride in and well where im from there arent many.

It's a lot easier to get land owners to allow snowmobiles than ATVs. Snowmobile trails are in use in the winter when the land is not in use and the land is usually frozen so not as much damage can be done.

Snowmobile trails are put in and maintained by local clubs. Anyone is welcome to start a local ATV club if they think it will help.

[Dave S]

That behavior by the sledders will bite them in the arse eventually. Snowmobiles were nearly banned in the 70's.

If people want to continue to enjoy their favorite recreations, they need to start riding responsibly. Whether it's ATVs, snowmobiles or motorcycles.

There is a new push to force motorcyclists to wear helmets again. I don't think ATVs are too far behind (for those over 18).

[LightningBG]

Ok i dont own a sled but speaking of about them who is responsible for giving up land to run trails from town to town and have the big fancy groomers go over them once or twice a week and put up all the signs and markers for the trails?? but yet a ATV cant ride in a ditch but everyone gives a left leg to maintain a sled trail? I have nothing against sleds by any means but i mean but people that own sleds are disrespectfull too and by that i mean driving thru yards in town to get out of town and taking the carbides and studs across driveways and sidewalks and marking them all up and then tearing up lawns as they are not so easy on the throttle? so who yells at them nobody! so why do atv users have such a bad rap and nobody wants to aid us in places to ride? its just like anything you take something away from someone they are going to want it more you take away places to ride were bound to break a law eventually rather than watch our toys sit in the garage and collect dust untill we can find a park to ride in and well where im from there arent many.

Big Dave is correct. On most of the land used for snowmobile trails, access is donated by the land owner to the local snowmobile clubs. Sometimes access is purchased by the club. Bars/Restaurants/Gas Stations/Dealers will also work to procure access/trails to their establishment. Funds for the club are provided by club members and local businesses that want traffic to come their way and advertise on the trail maps. Groomers are often owned by the clubs. There are some state and county groomers for the state/county trails. Funds are provided for those by registration and license fees as well as by tourism departments. Damage to land is normally pretty minimal as the ground is frozen and there aren't any crops in at that time of the year. When corn is left in the field like last year, many of the trails are closed to protect the grain. IMO land owners are more willing to grant access to snowmobiles due to the cultural aspect of it. Farmers have grown up with sleds (since the 60's/70's). Most of them probably rode themselves. Another thing is the people in the clubs are normally willing to help those who grant access / trade labor (i.e. we'll help you maintain these fences throughout the years if we can ride along it and put a gate in at the end.)

This is nothing against ATVs and riders, just explaining how snowmobilers have gotten to the point they're at now with the trail system. I guess the biggest tips I would have is 1) Stay respectful 2) become an economic source for the community you ride in (ie, go out to eat, buy gas, oil, parts, etc. Sledders spend a ton of money when they ride, and towns know it, and they want it)

[LightningBG]

This clip below is in reference to Michigan, but kinda gives you an idea what I mean as far as the economics aspect.

Snowmobiling is an integral part of Michigan's winter recreation and overall economy. In the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, winter revenues from snowmobiling often equal or even exceed dollars spent on summer recreational activities.

According to a study conducted by the Michigan Department of Park, Recreation and Tourism Resources and Michigan State University, the state's economy generates more than $1 billion annually in economic activity with 390,000 registered snowmobiles. On average, Michigan snowmobilers spend $5,700 each year on snowmobile recreation, tourism and products.

More than 100,000 Michigan households use the state's 6,200-mile trail network. Snowmobiling alone sustains more than 6,455 full-time jobs throughout the state.

During the winter season, Michigan resident snowmobilers traveled an estimated 114.3 million miles. An estimated $321 million in sales and $187 million in income resulted from these snowmobile trips throughout the state.

Michigan has also become a winter tourist mecca for out-of-state snowmobilers. Approximately 37 percent of all snowmobile trip spending comes from out of state.

[Dave S]

LightningBG,

thanks for the posts. Very informative.

[BobT]

"become an economic source for the community you ride in (ie, go out to eat, buy gas, oil, parts, etc. Sledders spend a ton of money when they ride, and towns know it, and they want it)"

The challenge for ATV riders is different. When snowmobiles hit the market they weren't faced with immediate riding restrictions and so were able to establish their potential economic impact to local businesses before the anti-sledding efforts of the '70s. ATVs on the other hand, were almost immediately restricted based on what was learned by the snowmobile issues previously. How do we riders demonstrate our potential economic impact when we are denied options to do so?

[Dave S]

"become an economic source for the community you ride in (ie, go out to eat, buy gas, oil, parts, etc. Sledders spend a ton of money when they ride, and towns know it, and they want it)"

The challenge for ATV riders is different. When snowmobiles hit the market they weren't faced with immediate riding restrictions and so were able to establish their potential economic impact to local businesses before the anti-sledding efforts of the '70s. ATVs on the other hand, were almost immediately restricted based on what was learned by the snowmobile issues previously. How do we riders demonstrate our potential economic impact when we are denied options to do so?

Ride reposnsibly and prove that our group can provide that positive economic impact.

There's already studies available to show how much ATV riders do for local economies so this just leaves riding responsibly.

Remember, loud pipes may save lives but they also close riding areas.

[gr8icefishinmind]

[gr8icefishinmind]

I personally am not one to just go on a 15 mph joy ride down a nice smooth trail....thats boring to me! I jump on my kawi to go rip around, hit mud pits, play in the water, jump approaches and so on! Luckily for me, i have private land that i am able to ride on that also has a gravel pit on it but also go out and find minimum maintenence roads after a good rain or yes......even ditches to play in!

[LightningBG]

I personally am not one to just go on a 15 mph joy ride down a nice smooth trail....thats boring to me! I jump on my kawi to go rip around, hit mud pits, play in the water, jump approaches and so on! Luckily for me, i have private land that i am able to ride on that also has a gravel pit on it but also go out and find minimum maintenence roads after a good rain or yes......even ditches to play in!

I don't mean to scold you, but I think that's why there aren't as many trails open for you. For instance, my grandparents and my aunt/uncle have farms about 1 mile apart. There is a minimal maintenance road between them. Going around is about a 4 mile route. They do most of the grading on the road themselves so they and others can use it (there is also a park access in between) Everybody around babies the road, so it doesn't get messed up. They drive around if its wet out at all. If they saw ATVs down there tearing it up on a soggy day. They would be the first people to deny access to their land, wiping out 3500+ acres of potential for the ATV community.

Another reason could be demographics. While a majority of ATV's like to "tear", a lot of snowmobile riders are 40-50-60-70 yr old men and women (like my mom) who never get above 30 mph. Just going for a Sunday afternoon cruise.

[gr8icefishinmind]

You can scold, its ok!! I'm not worried about riding trails i guess cause i really do not ride them at all, except an occasional trip to appleton where there is mud to play in! We all ride for different reasons.....some of you like to joy ride, which is fine and is what you do.......I on the other hand like to rip around and go mudding! We all ride for different purposes with one main purpose in common which is to have fun!!! And yes, i do pick and choose wisely where i mud.......i'm not out intentionally destroying property!!

[gr8icefishinmind]

But........i also know where you are coming from as on there is ALOT of tresspassing in the gravel pit on the property i ride on!! I big thing i think for riders is just riding with some common sense........stay out of places you should not be and be respectful of others property!

[Dave S]

But........i also know where you are coming from as on there is ALOT of tresspassing in the gravel pit on the property i ride on!! I big thing i think for riders is just riding with some common sense........stay out of places you should not be and be respectful of others property!

Very true Gr8.

As far as my comment, I only tossed that out there to add the twist on the well known "Loud Pipes" comment we often hear. But it is true, believe it or not. If someone can hear your piipes, even from 3 miles away it's too loud.

[LightningBG]

some of you like to joy ride, which is fine and is what you do.......I on the other hand like to rip around and go mudding!

Don't put me in that category. I don't have my own ATV, but the sled I ride is a tuned up 900. I have no time for going slow.

[Dave S]

Well since we're bragging, my toy will outrun your toys. I have a crotch rocket/wanna be grown up bike. 156hp and 155 mph. Haven't seen it, never will.