Pup killed by conibear trap....

[picksbigwagon]

Finger pointing gets you no where. Common sense needs to rule the roost when it comes to public property whether you are hunting, fishing, hiking, ATV'ing, trapping, hunting with your camera, what ever. Common sense in all situations will usually avoid tagic results.

I am not familiar with conibear traps, never seen one, would have no idea what a cubby set looks like or what to look for, I have read about them in fur, fish and game, but if I was out bird hunting and stumbled across one, I would be at a loss as to how to free a dog or even myself from the trap.

If you are going to be outdoors and pursue activities on public lands and waterways, you need to respect the other people using that land. If you are trapping, mark them so others know they are there, if you are hunting with a dog, keep an eye on your dog. Responibility is not controlled by an area code or an address, it is something we all have to do.........

[Recon]

Trappers have a really short fuse. In my earlier post I really made an effort to not tick anyone off. Using game bird remains as bait for a conibear trap during open season for those gamebirds is inexcusable and down right stupid. It really ticked me off!!! So am I supposed to keep her on a leash while hunting on public land? That trap was set as much to catch a hunting dog as it was any fisher, fox or whatever, because off the bait used, in my opinion! I guess I'll have to teach Kira the difference between bird scent that is wild and one that is stupid,inconsiderate. That particular trap will never catch another animal of any kind!

[picksbigwagon]

I can't answer that for you Recon, I don't even know if it is legal to use gamebirds for bait in a set, can a trapper please shed some light on that? The good thing is that you did keep your eye on your dog, you were being responsible for you dog. There are risks in life, no matter how safe you try and be, getting out of bed everyday is taking a risk.

I understand your frurstration as well, but, now there is a trapper out there with a ruined conibear trap. I am assuming you did something to his legally set trap judging by your last sentence. I am pretty sure that was an illegal act in itself too.

IS there answer to this? Not really, and we all know that too.

[walleyes12]

Trappers have a really short fuse. In my earlier post I really made an effort to not tick anyone off. Using game bird remains as bait for a conibear trap during open season for those gamebirds is inexcusable and down right stupid. It really ticked me off!!! So am I supposed to keep her on a leash while hunting on public land? That trap was set as much to catch a hunting dog as it was any fisher, fox or whatever, because off the bait used, in my opinion! I guess I'll have to teach Kira the difference between bird scent that is wild and one that is stupid,inconsiderate. That particular trap will never catch another animal of any kind!

Did you contact anyone? Did you call you local CO to make sure everything was legal? OR did you just come on this site to blame ALL trappers, and want chages, but dont want to take the responsiblity or effort to do so yourself?

[JayinMN]

People would like to see traps marked but the problem with that is setting a marked trap on public land is asking for it to get stolen. Tampering with traps is illegal so is stealing them, but it does not stop people. Above is an example. Traps cost a lot and they get stolen when found. People have the right to hunt public land and take their dog if they so chose, I have the right to trap if I choose too. I can use bird guts if I would like, if I do it does not give you the right to steal my traps. Its not being inconsiderate, its what I have on hand. Most critters are not found of ground hamburger, except dogs so you save the scraps of what you harvest earlier. No where on the law books does your dog have the right to roam loose on public land and interfere with others use of the land. Its your responsibility to keep the dog safe, if that means keeping it leashed, then yes, keep your dog leashed on public land. There is NO excuse for stealing, tampering with traps, harassing trappers or any other group of outdoors men because your interests differ. If I was bow hunting and your bird dog comes by should I shoot it because its interrupting my hunt? Like it or not, a dog and a trap are both property of the person who owns them. Just like I don't have the right to damage your property if it interrupts my hunt, you don't have the right to damage or steal someones traps on your hunt. Its a privilege to take a dog in the field not a god given right. Don't abuse that fact for other dog owners. I enjoy taking mine in the woods and accept the risks. Lets do the right thing now and call the tag on the trap and give it back to its owner. You would like your dog back if it ran off.

[rmkod]

I am glad I saw this thread. I guess I never thought about it but always assumed trapping was not allowed on public lands. I would just assume it is too much of a liablity. I understand the land should be for everybody's use but the big difference is if I were to shoot somebody else or their dog while hunting I am held accountable for it because I pulled the trigger. Thus trappers should be held accountable in my opinion. I at least have control over the trigger, where as you could be 100's of miles away from the trap while somebody's beloved pet dies because of your actions. It is just being irresponsible as a human being as far as I am concerned.

[T&KK]

Originally Posted By: T&KK

Thankyou recon,

This is exactly what i am talking about. Trapers need to figure out a way to weed out the dumb to save what they love to do and their god given right. With rights comes responsibility.

In that respect, lets weed all the dumb people out of fishing and hunting. Force hunter ed courses every 10 years for people who want to particpate. Never mind that a majority of sportsmen know what they are doing and are doing it respectfully and ethically. Punish everyone because of the a small minority.

Sound argument....

That is exactly why I took advanced hunter safety, to be better trained and for respecting fellow hunters, trapers, fishermen, hikers, campers, and whoever else crosses the path of an outdoorsman. And now that you mention that, not a bad idea. Force everyone to be certified in advanced hunter education after the age of 18 or 21 or 30 or whatever. Why not? Its a very valuable course and it taught me a lot. I have been shot at by a fellow bird hunter standing 70 years infront of him wearing blaze orange. He is also half minded and should be weeded out. I'm not singling out trapers as being the only group that has people who give them a bad name. Tiger woods just gave golfing a slanted name for a bit (golfers said it was a known fact that he was fooling around but tiger was their meal ticket), but that has nothing to do with this thread. All sports that harvest animals are under constant scrutiny by certain parties. What I'm saying is that it takes people like you and me to ensure people that hurt our outdoor rights are educated or lose the right to participate. I want more than anything to share the ourdoors with fellow outdoorsmen who are advocates of responsible, respectful, and educated practices, and yes that includes trapers. I have not pointed my finger at a specific group, just the need for responsibility and education. My opening statement clearly stated my intentions that I was not attacking trapers and that it was meant for education and clarification. We all take pride in what we do, so why don't we look out for each other.

Who all here has taken the time to take the advanced training that is offered?

[T&KK]

And I apoligize if my earlier post was taken as a personal attack towards trapers. I also know that it is up to me to take action to protect my rights when I see people acting within the law but being irreponsible hunting and fishing.

[KG243]

Public land is just that public land, If you don't want to take chances don't hunt public land during trapping season. They have just as many rights as bird hunters.

[yooperhawg]

That's really too bad about your pup, I would also be ticked off, but being a past trapper and an avid outdoorsman, if the person that set he trap was legal than he/she had every right to place it in the ditch. There is no need to call him/her lazy, that is a place that game would be. There should not be any pointing fingers, seems to me to be something that happens. We are all people that enjoy the outdoors, lets take the good with the bad. I am sorry for the loss of your pup.

[AlwysFshn]

Recon - I would delete the post about destroying a legally set trap if I were you. Not cool to brag about breaking the law in my humble opinion. I feel somewhat obligated to contact TIP when someone is so blatant about breaking hunting, trapping, or fishing laws.

PS - Not trying to be rude but this kind of falls under the "weeding out" of unlawful hunters, trappers, etc,.

[rmb]

after lurking and watching this post i wanted to chime in with a couple of thoughts. i personally don't see why trappers are not willing to mark their traps with something visual, so that other sportsmen would have better odds at not coming in contact with it. yes there is a greater risk of it being stolen but i'm sorry a 50 to couple hundred dollar trap is nothing compared to the few thousand dollars not counting the hundreds of hours put into a dog. yes scumbags may steel them but they should be reported and prosecuted same as any other law breaker. saying you don't want to mark them because something could happen to your trap is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. similar defense to if you don't want your dog hurt don't come onto public land. in my opinion you are placing the value of one over the other. if a trap is marked and a dog gets into it hunters fault, if a trap is not marked and a dog gets into it trappers fault. both sides are trying to protect there property. so hunters watch your dogs and don't touch marked traps and report anybody messing with them. on the flip side trapper put up at least a sign in the parking lot of the management area letting guys know you have traps out there and at least the general area they are in. shoot if the are water sets go to town. in addition if you are even considering setting a trap next to a landowners property in a ditch you will want to talk to them about it. if nothing else remember this as a land owner i am responsible for maintaining/mowing that ditch (at least in nd) and when that gets wound up inside one of my many thousand dollar pieces of equipment while mowing that ditch prior to winter i will be pretty hot over it. not to mention your trap will now be scrap. it shouldn't be so one side against the other.

having grown up on and currently responsible for managing a dedicated 80 acres preserve plus 1/4 owner of another 2,000 acres of prime pheasant land in north dakota. i know the value that trapping can provide. we spend countless hours trapping for just about every varmit possible, you may laugh at us be we have elected to switch to live traps due to the non discriminatory nature of other styles. comparing capture rates between the two styles has seen little variation. granted we are not trapping for coyotes mostly skunk, coon, p-pines. after switching we have also released plenty of animals that were not being targeted. for us coyotes are the old fashioned way out freezing our butts with a rifle.

i think there are some options out there to make it fair for both sides but one thing to keep in mind gentlemen is that hunting, trapping, fishing, any outdoor activity on public land is not a right as we are very apt to say it's a privilege allowed for at the pleasure of the property owners which is everybody. public land policy is dictated by majority rule for the most part. trappers have quite a bit smaller representation numbers wise and therefore are in a tight spot when it comes to just shear numbers. i think that some get really defensive and are apt to say that nothing needs to change but that stance will most likely end up in loss of privileges long term not maintaining or even expanding on what is currently available. not meant to be a threat just pointing out that larger organizations have more pull when it comes to the allocation of state/fed tax dollars and how those properties are managed. i am guessing that groups like pheasants forever have quite a bit more sway than the local trapping organizations and if those members make it a priority to change trapping rules on public land it would be pretty successful within a couple of years. totally different story on private land.

anyhow my two cents, merry christmas to both sides. i am off to the lake to ice fish, another great privilege of this state.

[Recon]

Lets make the record straight, the conibear trap in question is still right where the trapper placed it. The only difference is that I shoved a stick in it to spring the trap because my dog did not want to back out. My 2 cents worth to this particular topic was my experience just hours before seeing this topic about the pup killed. Trappers apparently take any criticism as a personal attack on their sport and themselves! To say that a hunter needs to keep his dog leashed while hunting on public land, is in itself a stupid, one sided statement!! My concern about this set was that a" game bird" was used as bait during an open season for game birds and that still is what ticked me off. PS I'm heading up this afternoon and if that set hasn't been checked ( it will have been 48 hrs) I will call it in. I now know why trapping has a PR problem.

[Flying_Fort]

I don't know that the trappers are taking anything personally here. It seems to me that the folks using words like stupid and inconsiderate are the non trappers here. Everything a non trapper needs to know about trapping laws are in the Minnesota Hunting and Trapping Regulations Handbook, everyone gets with a purchase of any hunting or trapping license. It just has to be read.

As far as checking traps a trapper has to check foothold traps or snares that do not drown the animal everyday, example coyote and fox traps. Conibear traps which are intended to kill the animal have to be checked once every three days, as are foothold traps setup to drown the animal.

Tripping a legally set trap is a violation of game laws. If you should call it in please inform the CO that you tripped a legally set trap. The trapper may not have to check it until tomorrow if it was set the day you tripped it.

To non hunters and trappers we all have a PR problem.

[Ray1]

First off is my sympathy for the pup and owner. Other than that you people that are pointing fingers at trappers and are out hunting are being hipocrits. It goes both ways. I dont trap but i thank every trapper that i see out and about. If they are doing it by the book than so be it and leave it alone. I bird hunt a lot and i think that trappers have just as much right as i do. So why dont you people get it. Lets stop all the whinning and name calling and other B.S. and get in to the outdoors without pointing fingers. P.S. messing with trapps that are not yours is illegal and i have no time for people like this.