River Tip... Eddies

[bronzeback]

so, bigfish1 if I know where to find thousands of baitfish, is it just a matter of being there at the right time to find a muskie hanging in the area? The spots I know that are stacked and loaded with baitfish HAVE had fish on them, but it's hit and miss as far as seeing/hooking up with fish. I went out today and focused on spots that hold literally thousands of baitfish, casted everything I had at them and around them but didn't see a fish. I know that's muskie fishing, but I was wondering if you had another strategy on working a spot like that-it's a mixture between a rockpoint and an area where water is being pumped into the river-muddy water, so it creates a sort of mudblind. just curious. I might edit this post out later because it's fairly spot specific but oh well.

[b1gf1sh1]

first. i assume you have confidence in that area because there's been fish there before. second an answer is a crapshoot. i can't see this area now and didn't when it had fish. so all i can do is give you my experiences with similar areas that produce sometimes and not others. third, you have no idea how many times i've gone home skunked. happy i was fishing, but SKUNKED up smelly. ...but that never hurt me yet. casting in those same areas next time... roses and minty fresh.

there's too many variables in a river to expect an area to produce regularly. unlike lakes where theres just a few circumstances that change things dramaticly, rivers are in the dozens. i'll go with the assumption you know most already and not dwell on little things.

ok. when you see/catch fish where is that point? 6 inches below the surface? a foot? .. ??.. that's important with any point, including rock ones. i know a whole bunch where just a few inches means it's wacko full of pike and muskie, or barren. others where they are below enough all the time that even a few feet in difference won't change the fishing, just if they are there or not matters.... ok...

the discharge. where's it from? is there sometimes something in it (or missing) that will make it undesireable? sure there's baitfish but if you had a choice between eating free food in a fine restauraunt with no annoying scent and nice deep breaths were easy... or ... in a grease pit that smells like the cooks b.o. and it's hard to breath with all the smoke and grease in the air from a flamed up burger and a stoggie cigar, where would you eat? fish have a choice. and the tough thing is the fine restauraunt can move from area to area pretty quick and at any time. there's no foundation keeping it in one spot and food is always free... ok...

the discharge again. what drains into the discharge? is a bunch of things like underground pipes coming from lakes from overflow and street drains and creeks? are the lakes not draining into the discharge right now, but were when the fish were there? are the creeks dried up now and not draining in but were full and draining in then? is there a dead animal smell in the water now but not then? is the flow slower now? is it faster? about the same but one of the above exists?

is the area infested with carp now but not then? carp can be a sign of stagnant or bad water... AKA, grease pit. is there any fish at all? (if not the baitfish will not be darting and dodgeing much, still could be carp eating if they are, or they could be spawning). baitfish are safe and theres food there so why leave? baitfish doesn't mean there's fish there too... see above restauraunt comments.

i concentrate on areas that have good to great oxygen and baitfish. nice moderate to fast waters that are fishable with nice structure. the more oxygen the better. ... there's that saying..'' if it looks fishy, fish it'' with only a few exception's i say this... ''if it smells fishy, leave'' or more accurate. ''if it smells, leave''.

lastly, the problem may just be other people are beating you to that area and the fish were already caught. for that, there is nothing anyone can do. hope this helps.

[bronzeback]

the discharge again. what drains into the discharge? is a bunch of things like underground pipes coming from lakes from overflow and street drains and creeks? are the lakes not draining into the discharge right now, but were when the fish were there? are the creeks dried up now and not draining in but were full and draining in then? is there a dead animal smell in the water now but not then? is the flow slower now? is it faster? about the same but one of the above exists?

very helpful, especially this part. Occasionally there is a smell, but it's not a terrible one, just not a natural river scent.

Thanks for the input, I think I know when I want to focus on that spot now.

[Zelmsdawg]

Hey b1gf1sh,

I think I asked this earlier but with all the stuff in rivers that likes to grab lures, why wouldn't you throw topwater 24/7? Is it not as effective with current or some other river smart reason?

Zelmsdawg

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

Thanks for the input, I think I know when I want to focus on that spot now.

no problem, i hope it helps.

Quote:

with all the stuff in rivers that likes to grab lures, why wouldn't you throw topwater 24/7? Is it not as effective with current or some other river smart reason?

personally, i'm really picky about where and when i toss a top water. but under the right circumstances top waters work just fine on a river.

[bronzeback]

nailed it on the head. used your input and my hunch and sure enough found a nice fish. She didn't eat, but she was there.

[b1gf1sh1]

cool

if i was a betting man... i'd bet your ''hunch'' was another area near the stinky one that wasn't?

[b1gf1sh1]

Quote:

So this delta is more or less in lake terms a sunken island of sand that will deflect current?

ok this kind of got lost so i'll clarify and add some. a lake will also have a delta just outside the mouth of anything feeding into it. as long as it's got correct sediment. different than an island. which was basicly a hill in the hole that filled with water and became a lake.

clarify... imagine a river doing a straight shot downstream. it's moving along and from the side of one of it's bank it get's blasted by strong current from a feeder creek. it swirls and boils, then it forms a delta. this is unlike the situation forming a delta at the start of lake st croix that forms because of faster water feeding directly into slower water in the same body as a result of the river suddenly being spread out. both are deltas but there's not the same side current when the river speeds up in a single ''concentrated'' area in the latter as the former.

the ones i like best are the feeder type (not just natural feeders, i.e. storm drains, overflow pipes, etc). it builds up and builds up and forms a current break that re-directs the main river current. lets say, for example, in low water conditions the delta is 1 foot underwater. on the other side (up and downstream sides) of the delta it's 3 feet deep. on either side there is an eddy formed but with the shallow water and small size of the eddies, with rare exceptions depending on the shoreline, it won't hold too many fish. it is still worth your time. but it is best worked from a distance when possible.

now imagine that same delta. a dam is opened, or, there's a lot of rain. the river speed picks up and the water rises. now that same delta is 5 feet under the surface. the water crawls up the banks, preferably a gentle slopeing bank like a beach, and those small eddies are now getting pretty big. where the edges on either side of the delta were 2 feet now they are 7 feet deep. now they are capable of holding large schools of anything, and without a doubt they will be. over prolonged periods of high water they get deeper as a result of the river hitting them and re-forming them into different types. they change, and reading the water day to day is important. after awhile a second or more can form away from the original and spread your fishable area out even more. that's what was happening in '94. untill about '97 the areas in question were better than before '94. then the rivers cut their way through again and the areas changed up back to normal.

these deltas are the ones i refer to as the best structure on a river. but only sometimes. when they are hit by side current under the above circumstances. worms, bugs, whatever are swept into these areas and stay there. oxygen is high, temperature is great, everything is best for a fish.

another subject as long as i'm writing... when an area that was good becomes not as good as another near by, or just not habitable anymore, fish will move to a better area. following the current, smelling, tasting and breathing the better water all the way to it. if your lucky enough, or knowledgable enough, to be on the river just after the water tables start going up (even just a few inces), fishing the main river channel will produce very nicely. after it rains or when a dam opens or even a lock opening are great times to troll the main channel. any fish that get put out of an area are looking for a new one and will travel the channel searching for the best conditions. this includes small fish too. do you think maybe bigger fish like a muskie or pike might know this? yup.

[bronzeback]

actually it was the same spot, you just have to be there when the water is a little cleaner.

[b1gf1sh1]

great. can you explain a few details of your strategy without giving exact co-ordinants of the spot. like... it is below a dam and before they open or after they close the west gates the water is cleaner... or something like that? i'm here to learn too!!

[bronzeback]

Rain helps immensely. I'm assuming it dillutes whatever it is that is making the water smell interesting, but I'm 2 for 2 on seeing fish in that spot post-rain (a decent amount of rain) and I caught my only fish of the year so far right off of that spot.

The whole "mud-blind" scenario that occurs is much less obvious after a rain and I'm not sure if the rain comes through where the water is pumped in, or if the run-off makes this spot more fishable, but they are definitely related.