Whoa baby!

[CASTnBLAST]

I've been trying to teach my two 4 month old Brittanies the whoa command by putting them at the stay position with one of my boys in control of the check cord.I then call them to come and give the whoa command along with the hand signal,of course they don't know whoa so my boy put's the brakes to them.Trouble is what's happening is they are hesitant to break the stay command,they used to respond to the come command immediately.I've already resolved to never use this method anymore,does anyone know any alternative methods for teaching the whoa command?Again,I don't care what anybody thinks about ropes and pullies etc.when I call come I want them to do so with vigor.

[setterguy]

First of all, you need to seperate the whoa from the stay. In young dogs ecspecially this will only confuse them. You only want to use whoa when you need them to stop immediatley, when teaching whoa you need to be very dilligent about putting them back into the posistion that they were in when you gave the command. When they are steadied in a whoa, you should teach them a "release" command, (OK, all right, touchdown, whatever) This will let them know that it is OK to move again then you can use the come if that what you want.

You posted " Again,I don't care what anybody thinks about ropes and pullies etc.when I call come I want them to do so with vigor."

I don't really know what that means. Did you try the method that I posted for your earlier question? If you missed it, here it is. This has been a fool proof method for every dog I've tried it on.First, get a standard leash. Wrap the leash around the dogs belly so the clasp goes through the handle part. Then attach the clasp to the dogs collar. If its hooked up right you should have a little dog suitcase. Now the dog will probably struggle and throw itself on the ground and throw a little tantrum right away, just stay calm and keep pulling them off the floor with the "suitcase". Once they have stopped struggling, start moving while holding on to the leash. Once they are walking with you, stop, give them a whoa command and gently tug up on the leash. If they move, pick them up with the leash and set them back in place. Again, they will probably struggle and throw a fit but with them restrained like this you have total control to get them back on thier feet. At the begining only make them stop for 5-10 seconds. Then give them a release command and start walking with them again. Give the whoa command and with a little tug stop walking. Again, if they move, pick them off the ground and set them back in place. You can start making them stay put for longer and longer periods of time then eventually start walking away from them. Just remember if they move without a command pick them off the ground and set them back in place. I know this is kind of a hard thing to picture but I tried........ This technique has worked with every dog I have ever used it on. It is a very simple, painless way to teach a dog that whoa means stop, and stay until told otherwise. I start with puppies as young as 12 weeks with this method, it doesn't hurt and the fact that they realize that you are in total control really makes them pay attention. If you need some more explanation just leave a post here. Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by setterguy (edited 09-06-2004).]

[Gill]

I taught my wirehair pup this command by following the NAVHDA method, and it works pretty well. This involves placing the pup on an elevated surface such as a picnic table with a leash and chain attached. While the pup is standing, command "whoa" in a calm manner and immediately follow with a quick upwards tug on the leash. Make sure the chain is very high on the neck (just behind the ears is ideal) because they are far more sensitive in this area and will respond better. Take a couple steps away from the platform and be ready to give the "whoa"/tug combo immediately after any FOOT movement. Slowly work your way outwards (switch to a 20-30' checkcord) and around/behind the pup over several training sessions. Also, try to pull the pup forwards while giving the command. When you consistently get a positive response (absolutely no foot movement), start to introduce distractions and eventually work on the ground.

[This message has been edited by Gill (edited 09-23-2004).]

[CASTnBLAST]

Setterguy,the method you stated about waiting the dog out to heel has worked wonders for me,they both are heeling quite well now on a lead...off lead will hopefully come around in time.When I command whoa and stop while on the lead most often they will stop but I'm thinking it's mostly in response to my stopping because they don't pay it much attention off lead.I'm a bit anxious to try them on some chuckars but would like to get the whoa commands down first.The rope and pulley idea is using a rope ran through a pulley behind the dog and using the come and then whoa command while stopping the dog with the rope in hand,basically what I was trying to do with the check cord and my boy's help(easier to grab one of the kids than to find a pulley around my place) Thanks for the replies,I will continue to try this method and also the picnic table idea.

[setterguy]

Once you think the dog has the whoa understood try dropping the leash and walking a short distance from them. If they move, even a little, pick them up and place them back where they started, and give a gentle whoa. After you are able to get farther and farther away, for longer periods of time, then you can start to "release" them out of a whoa with a command. Then you can call them to you, or give other instructions. I was telling you not to use the come command out of a whoa because there are going to be times that you don't want them to come to you when they are on a whoa command, you will want them to continue hunting, go around a danger (barbed wire fence) or possibly look for a downed bird. Giving a release command just lets them know its ok to move, just not always right back to you. By any chance are you going to attend the pheasant hunt on the 2nd of October? If so we could go over a few of the techniques.

[This message has been edited by setterguy (edited 09-23-2004).]

[CASTnBLAST]

After trying everything ends up the simplest form of training has worked for me and that's whoaing the pups at feeding time before allowing them to eat.It's been pretty consistent and getting better.Not saying it's the best way but has worked out well and fast on my pups.Thanks again for suggestions though!Ready to move on to some planted birds this weekend.