Hey setterguy

[bigeyes]

Talked to a guy at the Sports Show from one of the local training kennels in MN. He told me I do not want to teach my dog steady to wing and shot if I am going to use him just for hunting. He cited hunting pheasants in South Dakota as an example of how you want your dog on a cripple the second it comes down. He said if you hold your dog until you release him then you lose a lot of cripples that run away. I think some amature field trial/hunt test would be fun, but I want my dog to primarly be used for just hunting. What he said makes sense to me and my party are poor shots and do cripple and lose a lot of birds(that is a big reason I got Jake!) He said much better for hunting if your dog chases every bird that flushes, if it is trained well enough to come back immediatly on "no bird" or "here" command. What is your take on this?
He also said that 6 months is too early to try to teach steady to wing and shot if I still want to go that route.

[bigdog]

Not to butt in on your question but I tend to agree with the trainer. I debated training for steady to shot but found I like the dog getting on the rooster asap. Sometimes this means you let a low bird go if the dog chases but it doesn't happen often. Steady to shot training would be "advanced" training, after the dog learns to quarter, retrieve and obiedience. 6 months would be awfully young to start.

[setterguy]

I agree with both your trainer and bigdog in the fact that the dog is absolutley on the birds faster, and you are correct you may not lose as many cripples but I would like to offer a rebutle. When you steady a dog to wing and shot there are a couple advantages that most people don't consider. First, saftey. The dog shouldn't be anywhere near the shot as the bird releases from cover. And if the dog is allowed to break as soon as the bird does you always have the chance of a trajedy. Next there is the instance that there are multiple birds in one location. There have been many times that my dog has pointed, a bird flushed and as I took a step another bird has gotten up, one that I would have most certianly missed had my dog been chasing the first flighted bird. Then there is the marking factor. And this is dependant a lot on the type of cover you hunt. Personally I think a dog that stands until kill has a better idea of where the bird is going down than one that chases immediatly. Again this is really based on the type of cover your hunting, but when I am in the grouse woods, my dog watches that bird launch and fall and can also listen for it to hit the ground. If you are hunting open prairies it may not be such an issue. Steadying a dog is a personal issue, it takes a lot of time, and patience and consistency to keep a dog honest. Also take into consideration that if you do decide to steady your dog, it will be very frustrating for your dog to be hunted with a dog that is allowed to release. One time of chasing and you go back to square one. 6 months is real young to start that kind of advance training, you want to make sure you are rock solid on the main parts of training before you start to put that kind of pressure on the animal. Let the dog hunt for a few years and then make your own decision as to what you think you would like. If you find instances in which you think you get a few birds because your dog was chasing then you probably have your answer. If you want to have a finished dog that is steady, let me know and I can help you with the training.
Good luck what ever you decide.

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Keep the tip up, ask permission and shoot straight. Setterguy

[bigdog]

setterguy,

Good points. My perspective was coming from strictly chasing roosters or sharptails where the dog can usually mark on the move. I also hunt at times with other dogs that are not steady to shot which would as you explained, make things a bit challenging.

[BDR]

Very good points. My GSP is not steady to shot,I Will be working on that this summer. I did like the fact that he was on birds so fast they didn't have a chance to get away. But last year I had several instance as Setterguy referred to. He'd point a bird, I'd go in for the flush he'd chase and flush more birds. I could always stop him within 25-40 feet but many times that was to far. Also the safety is an issue. I'm confident in myself passing on unsafe shots but have had a couple times I had to ask someone with me if they knew where the dog was when they shot. of course they thought it was safe and I trust it was(or it would be the last time I hunted with them). Maybe it looked closer from my angle but still made me think I'd rather have him steady. Maybe I'd feel different if he wasn't such a great retriever.

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If I only had more time!

Brian Rogers