overheating grand am

[Tom7227]

My kid has a 96 or so Grand Am with a 3400 SSI engine (at least that's what's written on the top of the motor) and 137,000 miles on it. A mechanic told her there was a bad head gasket and that some coolant was leaking from it but it certainly ins't the gallons that she's lost in the last 75-100 miles. I mean she's put 3 or 4 gallons of the premix into it in that period.

She's been losing a lot of coolant and having overheats. I just ran it for about 15 minutes and it got to 200 degrees. No heat at all coming from the heater. I turned on the AC and the radiator fans did not come on - I think they come on on other cars I've had when you turn on the AC. I can't see any leaks or evidence of spray in the engine compartment.

There's a high pitched squeal that could be coming from either the altnerator or the water pump, maybe even an idler arm.

Right now I'm betting on the water pump given the lack of interior heat.

Any ideas? What could be done to nail it down tighter, if anything.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Intake gaskets are very common but these are also prone to head gaskets as well.

There no heat from the heater because there is still air in the system from running low.

If the A/C is low on refrigerant the compressor will not kick on. If the compressor does not kick in there will never be enough pressure on the high side switch to turn the fans on. The fans should come on at around 220 to 225 degrees.

It would be in your best interest to have the cooling system pressure checked. It is a reasonably priced service. This will tell where where the leak is. I would bet it is the intake gasket and it is pouring out right under the throttle body!

[Tom7227]

We've gone through the fill it, run it for a short time, fill it, run it for a short time deal a number of times. Short of some sort of 'burping' process I don't know how we could get more fluid into the system. Not questioning your diagnosis - I've seen enough on this forum to know you hit the mark most of the time. Wouldn't we see a trail of liquid, dripping in the garage or something if it were coming out under the throttle body? I know the stuff just doesn't dissappear, but I would expect some sort of evidence of spraying if it wasn't just blowing out the overfill.

Thanks for the info - looks like a tow to the shop is in order.

[Jeremy airjer W]

They can be very difficult at times to get the heater core to burp. There should be a couple of bleeder screw, one on the bypass pipe near the water pump and the other on the t-stat housing. These need to be opened especially the water pump bypass bleeder. If the air is not removed from this part of the pipe you will not get any coolant flow to the heater core, essentially vapor lock.

Have you checked the oil? Is it overfilled? is it milky or looks like chocolate milk? If it does don't bother having it towed unless you are prepared to have a reman or used engine installed. Coolant in the oil will wash the main bearings. even if the repair is made on the leak the damage has been done and will show up usually within a couple of months.

If the oil looks good than a pressure check is still your best bet!

[Tom7227]

Thanks. Oil is good. I mainly want to try and get it running to avoid the hassle of towing it to the shop. Of course the chosen guy is 30 miles away so getting it to fire up and stay cool would be nice.

Airjer, thanks again. Tom

[Tom7227]

Airjer,

This has me baffled. I went over after dinner and bled it out with the valve coming up off the water pump. I poured coolant into the resvior when it was cold and it weeped out of the valve pretty quickly. We then took the car out and drove it a few miles. Stopped and added more coolant. We did this 4 times, going about 2 miles on each run. Each time the resivor took maybe a pint or two. By the time we ended I had put maybe 1 1/2 gallons into it. The odd thing was that the temp gauge stayed at around 200 but the heater would be intermittent. There was no seeming correlation between when we were stopped at a light and when we were driving. It would be warm and then a block later it would be stone cold - but the gauge was still at 200. We were running the same route and no where was there evidence of leaks.

A mechanic put in a new thermostat a month ago and a new hose. That hose was leaking and he tightened the clamps and I suspect that's when the air block started.

Any thoughts? We're going to take it up to a new mechanic tomorrow and hopefully we can get it there without too much hassle.

Thanks again for your time and skill.

Tom

PS It probably doesn't make any difference but it is a 2001, not a 98.

[deadeye]

Well, if there isnt any coolant in the oil , im doubting a head gasket. I would put money on the intake gaskets being shot. With that amount of coolant use and it not being on the ground its going through the motor somewhere. There are air bubbles in the system and thats whats giving you the heater problem. Once the leak is fixed it will burp the air out and then you wont have to put any coolant in again.

[Whoaru99]

If it's not going onto the ground or into the oil, then where else?

If it's going through the engine combustion, doesn't that generally make a bunch of white smoke out of the exhaust?

[deadeye]

It would make its way through the motor. It doesnt always show up that easy, especially in winter when you can see the exhaust most of the time. The intake gaskets are a huge problem with that motor too. Its something that just about all of them should have had done anyway.

[Tom7227]

Well we made it to the shop and so it's someone else's problem now. Once it's figured out I'll update so that folks don't go crazy trying to figure things out. It sure has me baffled.

[Tom7227]

Bad news. Antifreeze in the oil. The kid can only afford a engine from a junk yard. Total tab is going to be about $1,300 and I'm having the new intake manifold gaskets put in. Hopefully she'll get a couple more years out of it cause it's going to take that long for her to get enough ching to replace this heap.

Again, thank for the help.

[deadeye]

well sorry for the bad news. at least with the used motor the problems will be fixed before they start. Once that issue is taken care of they usually run for quite a while.

[Jeremy airjer W]

Tom, Give the guys at Johns Auto Parts in blaine a call. They have these motors with essentially a poor mans rebuild. Call them for specific info but if they have known problem histories there used engines come with all those parts already replaced, and a generous warranty as well!!!! Basically you will not have to do anything except install and fill with fluids!

[Tom7227]

AirJer

The guy doingthe work has his preferred places and has already bought them. He got the motor with 122k on it with a warranty for $475. He already had the gaskets so all he was going to need to add to the pile was a thermostat. I suppose there is a better deal someplace but what's done is done.

Thanks again.

Tom

[Whoaru99]

I suppose there is a better deal someplace but what's done is done.

Thanks again.

Tom

Yeah, there's almost always a better deal somewhere if you have the time to find it. Sometimes you just have to git'er done.

[Tom7227]

We went and got the rig today and took a look at the old motor - holy smokes what a mess. There was this brownish gunk built up on the valve covers and other spots. Clearly this leak had been going for quite a while because I don't think this gunk could build up and stay in place if it was only a few miles. The really strange thing is that when I looked at the dipstick the liquid was clear, not milky. The mechanic said that if you let it sit long enough it seperates back out and so what I was looking at was the pure coolant that had come to the top in the pan. Other thing was no engine noises even though it apparently was running with about 1/2 coolant and 1/2 oil.

I'm glad we went for the replacment rather than the original intake gasket cause the old rig would have lasted about a week.

[Jeremy airjer W]

If I would have saw that under the valve covers I would have put them back on and given you a call with a new estimate as well. Like I said earlier, any coolant in the oil and you can stick a fork in it because it is done!

[Tom7227]

If I did this correctly here are some pictures of the old engine.

[Scott K]

MMMMM!!! Milk shake