"TOPPING" Pine Trees

[DonBo]

I have two pines in my yard that are getting tall and thin. Would like to top them so they get more full. Can anyone tell me how and when to do this?

[Quetico]

Topping a tree is the worst thing you can do. Never top any tree for any reason. Cut them down rather than top them. If you top them off they wont fill out. It works for shrubs but no trees. Topping just weakens trees and makes them more susceptible to disease.

[Powerstroke]

I would never advise you to top any tree, especially an evergreen. Growing upright through a central leader is what they are designed to do. If they are not full enough than it may be a genetic trait or it could be from a disease or something else stressing the tree.

It matters whether its an actual pine or if its a spruce and what species. Do you have a picture of what you're talking about?

[reelemin]

good advice powerstroke. that is what I was thinking, but wasn't sure.

[DonBo]

Really? Isn't that how Christmas Trees are grown to be so full? I've always heard about cutting the "candle".

[fishermatt]

DonBo, how tall are your pine trees? If they are 50 feet tall and you cut off the top 20 feet, it probably won't help. But if they're more like 10-20 feet, you should be able to help them fill out by taking out the central leader, which will force the rest of the tree to bush out. They are Your trees, and you can do what you want with them no matter what others say. Experience is the best teacher. I worked for a guy who had a Christmas tree farm, and we regularly "topped" trees that were getting too big and thin.

[DonBo]

These trees are still only 6-8 feet tall.

[Powerstroke]

Trimming the candle is a practice where you pinch off the newest growth of that year. Meaning you are only trimming the first 2-3" of growth from the new buds.

Most trees will bud out with 2 buds to the side and one inthe middle. If you pinch the middle one you will get the outward growth but not the length. This will make it thicker.

Yes they are his trees and he is free to do with it what he wants, but if he does it incorrectly cause I said, "go top them" then he might end up with a tree thats 10yrs old and now looks terrible and is worth nothing.

I would still like to know what kind of trees they are and if you have a photo. Spruces are usually pretty thick on their own. Pines on the other hand aren't really meant to be thick bushy trees. The whorls have fewer branches and if there aren't a lot of longer needles then they might look thin.

Look at the trees that are typical christmas trees. They are scotch pine, spruces, and firs. They are dense trees with small needles. The scotch pine is the longest needles of all the them and will usually be the "thinnest" of the christmas trees.

Also, the reason I recommend against topping is because it creates a large wound in the tree. It causes the tree to grow unnecessarily in a way to compensate for the loss of that central leader. Now there will be a branch that turns upwards to become the new leader. So, not only did the tree try to get back its original shape, it now has a "shepard's crook" on the top. The new branch and any branches that grow above that topped point are now supported by a weaker connection. Its the same whether you're topping a pine or a willow or a maple.

[Powerstroke]

Probably the thing that would work the best, if at all, would be to use a hedge trimmers and shave off the outside 2-3" of needles much like you would on a shrub. You can only do this once a year though because trees will only put out new shoots once a year unless greatly stressed.

It will start to look more like cone-shaped shrub, but if it becomes denser, then you could let it start to grow naturally again.

I want you to understand that I'm not trying to say anything about what you're trying to do with your trees. My concern is that either your tree is not healthy, or its simply the wrong tree for what you want to see. Some trees just aren't meant to be thick and lush. If that is what you want, than you may consider planting a different kind of tree or add additional plantings to fill in the gaps.

[fishermatt]

DonBo, are these Red (norway) Pine or White Pines? Or something else? Different species grow differently, so it would help to know this. Thanks.

[DonBo]

Thanks for the replys guys. I'll try to get pictures up tomorrow.

[DonBo]

This is the tree I would really like to have looking good. As you can see, the top is already split into 3 sections.

[fishermatt]

Ok, that's a Spruce tree. It would be good to keep the central leader of the top 3 intact, and trim the 2 side shoots about halfway. Then you could trim those really long side shoots so they're more even with the rest to shape the tree more. A good time to trim is in the spring right when the frost is going out, but before the tree starts growing.

[DonBo]

Alright! Thats the kind of info I'm looking for. Does it matter how far back I can trim the side shoots?

[Powerstroke]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

That spruce could definately benefit from some pruning. I would say that it probably has seen a fair share of fertilizing. That has got quite a bit of yearly growth that is causing it to "stretch" out. If you're fert'ing I would hold off this season, or use something with less nitrogen. You want to focus on root growth.

As far as the pruning, I would cut back no more than half way and try to get it near a set of buds. You can do that with a pole pruner or a hand pruner. Feel free to tuck in the sides too to try to get a more uniform shape. I think its look pretty healthy and you should be able to get what you want from it.

[DonBo]

Thanks for the spot-on advice!

[DonBo]

 Originally Posted By: fishermatt

A good time to trim is in the spring right when the frost is going out, but before the tree starts growing.

Is it time now?

[Quetico]

The time is quickly passing. I would do it asap if you haven't already.

[LABS4ME]

I have a horticulture degree, am a State Certified Nurseryman and I've been in the landscape and nursery business for 26 years... I will pose this question... 'why would you prune (shape) an evergreen before the new growth emerges'? Christmas tree farms and nurserys prune them after the tree candles out (the flush of new growth usually in mid-May to the 1st part of June) but before that growth fully hardens off. The old axiom with evergreens is "prune in June"!

Most evergreens have little ability to produce adventatious buds (ie: a bud that develops on a wound or on bare stems) like a deciduous plant. For the most part, they only produce buds on new growth. So you have to provide some new growth first to set buds for the following year. So when your spruce tree flushes out it's new growth, up to half of that growth can be pruned back. This will cause the branch that was pruned to produce more lateral buds as opposed to a central bud to continue outward growth. When the central bud is cut, the hormones that produce apical dominance are spread to the remaining buds until the branch establishes a new central bud. so more lateral buds, flushing more growth, produces a fuller looking tree. But beware, too many years of successive prunng can actually be detrimental to the overall look of the tree. It will become very artificial looking and if left to grow out will be a very distorted tree in a matter of a couple of years. A light overall shaping every 2nd or 3rd year until the tree is 10' tall will definitley help and should be enough to help with the overall look of the tree.

Another thing to remember is that evergreen needles only live for 3 years. So if you cut off the brances now prior to this years needles being set, you are in essence taking off 2 years worth of needles... last year's and this upcoming season's. If the tree does not set bud for next year, you will have a bald tree!

If the point of the pruning is to only cut back the leaders, I agree that it can be done now, but I'd still only take the main central leader half way back at the most. Look for a strong bud and prune 1/2-1 inch above that. Any secondary leaders can be fully pruned off as they will only try to compete with the central leader.

I wouldn't touch the tree with any pruning equipment right now if the intet is to produce a better shape, only a minimal amount of select removal of branches.

Good Luck!

Ken