Statewide Slot

[Guest]

I think this is a great thread. I personally don't like the idea of a state wide 'hard' slot limit. But I think there are things that should be done.

Ideally I would like to see a modified slot limit on walleyes with a reduced limit. Something like a 12"-17" slot with one outside the slot, 4 fish max.

Or doing a max total inches with a slot. 14"-18" slot with a max of 64" of total fish, with one fish outside the slot. This would allow people to keep that walleye that is 22" but gut hooked and probably won't make it. . .but then they would only be able to keep 3 fish total.

I think a total length would also be helpful for panfish, something like a 10' rule. Make it a combined panfish limit. You could take ten 12" crappies, or twenty 6" sunnies, or anything in between as long as you did not exceed 10' of fish. Leave the existing fish limits in tact. I don't like the WI combined panfish limit because there is a big difference between 30 6" sunfish and 30 12"-15" crappies.

The problem with this is enforcement and angler education. There are a lot of people that do not understand how taking a limit of crappies out of a hole every day (sometimes twice a day) can dramatically effect the population in a hurry. The great ones are the old timers that come out every day - fish until they catch there limit - then take the fish and give them to aunts, uncles, neighbors, friends, who ever - only to be back on the lake 45 minutes later fishing again. The problem is that in my area this is accepted, even encouraged by a lot of people. What is really sad is the number of these people are my relatives. I have tried to explain to them that it is not right.

The one that really got me was somebody that would catch a limit of sunnies, clean them, put somebody elses name on the bag and put them in his freezer - every day, sometimes twice. His reasoning was that he was giving them away, and thus no longer fell under his posession limit. And now he wonders why the lake he lives on has so dammed many little sunnies in it.

Last thing on a long post. A 17" walleye will give you about 10 to 12 oz of filets (two 5 to 6 oz filets). That is about 2.5 to 3 lbs of fish. If that doesn't feed a family of 4 you need to mix in a salad or a side of rice - maybe a baked potato. Or if it is so important to get 6 fish take one of your kids or your wife with you. I don't like the occasional fisher story on why limits shouldn't be dropped.

Sorry for the long post.

kgm

PS - Adam - GREAT POST

[Guest]

This is one topic that will continue to plague both the fisheries biologists and the anglers for who knows how long. What is right for the fisheries may not always be what is "right" or accepted by the anglers (and vice verca). That is the biggest problem management faces when trying to manage a fishery. Another problem, especially in a state like Minnesota where there is a lake everywhere you look, is that it is very difficult to manage every lake. There is no "cure-all" answer to protect and improve every lake. This being said, there are a few options that work.

1) Slot limits work very well. They work for all fish (they work very well for panfish, but that brings up problems I will discuss) and they usually bring results in a fairly fast manner. Slot limits can be used to do a lot of things from protecting spawning sized fish to increasing size of undersized or stunted fish to reducing populations of small fish so there is more biomass for the fish to grow into. Crawlerman brought up an interesting idea about rotating slots. The only problem I see with that idea is that we would always be taking fish or protecting fish from a single year class (give or take). It would kinda defeat the whole purpose of a slot limit.

The problems with slots. They can be hard to enforce. We all know that some people don't like to be told what they can and cannot keep, that's just the way it is. Some people just don't know about the regulations. This isn't always a big problem, but sometimes it is. Slot limits on panfish are especially hard to enforce. If what is best for one fishery is to only keep bluegills between 5 and 8 inches, people are going to have a tough time doing that. Another problem with slots is that it is hard to set a slot that will work in all lakes statewide. Slots work best at a lake to lake level. So what then?

2) Creel limits and possession limits. The age old question, "How many can I keep?". Obviously, the more you keep the more you take out of the fishery (that kinda sounded redundant ). So you would think that the less you keep the better it will be for the fishery, right? Well...not always. Like it was said earlier, the difference between 6 walleyes and 4 walleyes is really not that much for a number of reasons. One is that not everyone catches a limit of walleyes everytime they go out fishing. At the same time, we can't have someone going out and keeping 4 to 6 walleyes everytime they go out and just keep them in their freezer until they have 100 walleyes. That is where possession limits come into play. Basically, what is best is for people to take what they need for the day (meal) and that is it. When those are gone they can catch more. The problem with that is that it is hard on the "occasional angler". But then if you think about it, if they go fishing with their family (spouse, kids?, friends) there should be enough people with licences to each have a limit of 4 walleyes (which is more than enough for a meal). So what do you do?

3) Minimums and Maximums. You can only keep fish bigger than "x" inches, or you can only keep fish smaller than "y" inches. Sounds kinda like a slot limit, right? Well, it's close. These work well at protecting trophy sized fish, or protecting fish that need more time to grow. Look at the musky and hopefully soon the pike. Musky fishing in Minnesota is better now than it ever has. There are more big muskies being caught and I think it will only be a matter of time until pike will be the same way. This type of limit also works well for panfish and all species really. The same problems come up here as they do with slot limits though. But I do think that this type of limit is slightly more accepted overall by the anglers. I think they feel that they are not being "restricted" quite so much.

So what is the best approach? I think it is all of the above with a little lee-way and one more VERY important addition... Education! If the anglers are more educated about the fisheries and the management techniques, they will be more accepting towards new regulations and will be more aware of thier impact on the fishery. Catch and release is very important to the future of our fisheries, but so is selective harvest. We need both, it is good in a lot of cases to keep some fish, but you need to release the brood stock and anything else you don't need for a meal.

We have too many lakes (I know... Darn, too many lakes to fish ), but it is true. It is next to impossible to create regulations that will improve the fishing in every lake and still keep everyone happy. So through education and trust in the management laws "imposed" on us, fishing will continue to improve for the most part. There will always be exceptions and unhappy people, but hopefully that too will change for the better in time.

Thank you to everyone who actually read this long, long post. Hopefully it made some sense and didn't confuse too many .

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Adam Johnson
www.adamjohnsonfishing.com

[SpikeRoberts]

Adam, excellent post. Maybe the logical direction from here is to start educating where & when different selective harvest strategies are approporiate. For instance, what characteristics/occurences/signs should tip an angler off that small northerns need to be harvested out of a particular lake? When do the 6-8 sunnfish need to be targeted? I for one have some pretty vague notions about when/where to do what, but would like to hear some more input from some of our pros/staff and members with a better background in biology.

[Guest]

I wonder if the DNR, during the course of their creel surveys, fish netting, etc. could outline the age class of the lakes better and come up with a selective harvest guideline for each lake they do?? Doesn't seem as though this would add too much to their job, as they are doing the surveys already...

If we knew as anglers which fish should be released it surely would help. They could post this as a guideline, rather than a slot...

[Just4fun]

The problem I have with slots is the times a fish is hooked badly and you have to throw it back and watch it float away. I have been on the Mississippi and have literally seen dozens of 10 to 15 inch walleyes come floating by during the course of the day. Made me give up fishing there.

[jparrucci]

I'm sorry, there is no way one 17 inch walleye is going to feed a family of four. The is no way one 17 inch walleye is going to feed me. I weigh in at a whooping 140 lbs. I like to eat walleye, scratch that...I LOVE to eat walleye. Mixing in some potatos, I still have no problem knocking down 2 or 3 decent sized walleyes. I fish one week durning the opener, and if I'm lucky I'll get out walleye fishing once or twice the rest of the year, except for some river fishing and I don't keep any of those. I'm a college student who works full-time. Changing my limit to 4 walleyes, that means I get to eat while I'm fishing during the opener, and I have enough for one more meal the rest of the year for me and my fiance. Might as well not let us keep anything. "If you don't eat it that day, you can't keep it." Thats what some of these responses sound like. Think of all the occassional fisherman. I'm as dedicated and concerned about this as some of you who get out on a daily basis. If I didn't love fishing this much I wouldn't be posting on this site. Please keep in mind that others don't have the time, money, and resources as some of you. Sorry if it sounds like I'm scolding, but I had to give my 2 cents.

[Cliff Wagenbach]

Slots only work when they can be enforced!
Which is almost impossible on most lakes with the low percentage of D.N.R. personell available. Sure the wardens will manage to bust a few violators, but will probably not get back to that particular lake again for weeks!
And slots have to be lake specific in order to work right.
I am all for implementing lake specific slots, but not for a state wide set slot.
Cliff

------------------
Cliff's Guide Service
CliffsGuideService-LakeVermilion.com
Lake Vermilion
Phone: (218) 753-2005

[Bodyman]

I don't know about a state wide slot, but a state wide maximun size limit on panfish would be a great idea.9" gill,12" crappie, 12" perch. There is not now or ever has been a shortage of panfish so the reductions in limits is politically motivated and will help very little if at all. Billions of them live in MN lakes and rivers. Size of panfish is a problem on many waters for many different reasons. Not just overfishing.

A maximun size limit would assure the large breeders are protected. Being protected by law their numbers would grow very quickly. As a result there would be more 7"-9" gills 10"-12" crappie, 10"12" perch in the waters for harvest.

There's alot of info at the MN,DNR site on management of panfish. Limit reductions was not one of the possible answers to size problems. But that's what the politicians passed along as laws to protect?? Something wrong here?? I think the limits should be liberal on panfish, they are the bread and butter of the fish eating world. But with the pressure politicians were getting from constituents they had to pass something. Whether or not it was biologicly sound.

MN DNR site mentions that they were dealing with the problem of stunting back in the 40's 50's so it's not just a today thing with more fisherman to blame as some would suggest. Also the thought of why pass laws that cannot be enforced due to the lack of CO"S in the field. I would like to think that the majority of sportsman are law abiding and would follow the new laws the same way they follow the laws implace. Violators and poachers will be violators and poachers not matter what laws are implace.
More enforcement and stiffer fines and LOSS OF PRIVILEGES, but then that's a different topic.

Fishing is Life.

[chunkytrout]

I'm going to invite a few fisheries guys to this post and get their take on the whole thing.I myself am still undecided without the data and the knowledge to understand the data. Everybody here makes a pretty good point.

[Guest]

Slot limits? The next thing it'll be is which baits you can only use on certain days...minnows on mondays,crawlers on tues.,bare hooks weds., etc. Sounds like another step towards communism to me. Keep it up and sooner or later it'll be catch and release ONLY or even worse...a ban on fishing alltogether! Just my $.02

[Guest]

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[Guest]

With alot of these "greedy" people, we have the opportunity to change things ourselves. CPR even more fish to make up for the people that don't. If I would catch 50 - 18" eyes in one day I would bring home 1 for sure maybe 2 which is a meal for the wife and I. The rest would swim. I think personal slots of respectable limits and size is our best bet. Educate those who don't!! Keep what your going to eat and remember no possesion limit on walleyes. If you have 5 in the freezer the next trip you can catch 1 to keep. Again there are a lot of people who keep catching and freezing fish till their freezer is full. That is why personal CPR is important. Noone will ever agree on what kind of slot or limits on fish there should be. That is why this subject is so touchy. My Limit in the boat is NEVER more than 2 eyes. Thats just me. If it takes 6 eyes to have a meal...take 6. Just remember to use ethics and release those big females.

Keep the lines tight

[Guest]

Growing up in Minnesota and fishing there the last 28 years I would have to say that fishing has been and still is absolutely fantastic!

I'm not your typical weekend warrior that fishes one or two different spots, fishes where everyone else fishes and complains when I can't catch any fish. You know the old adage: 10% of fishermen catch 90% of the fish, This is true!

Modern technology and sophisticated electronics are everywhere now and definitely aid in the success of the modern day angler, especially when your talking about ice-fishermen and the use of flashers.

While working fisheries in MN I would deal with disgruntled anglers who would constantly argue the productivity of there fishing spots claiming that the state was not doing enough to benefit their fishing effort in regards to stocking. Claiming that cutbacks in the stocking program was impacting the quality of fishing and the numbers of fish they were catching. This is true to an extent, but personally I have never had a problem catching fish on any body of water that supported a decent level of natural reproduction. If one lake gets hit hard for a couple of years, I disregard it for a few years and come back once it has had time to recover. What I see is a lot of folks who are afraid of fishing a lake they don't know and remain loyal to one they do. This limits the potential of many anglers.

The status of our large lakes has never been so good! Our big walleye producers such as: Mille Lacs, Leech, Winni, Vermilion, Lake of the Woods, Rainy, Basswood, etc. are in better shape now than they have been in 20 years producing more and bigger fish. Most of this is the success is because of successive year class strength due to ideal spawning conditions state wide. What the state wants to do is maintain those year classes so fishing remains productive on these systems for years to come due to the uncertainty of ideal spawning conditions and natural reproduction in years to come.

The state and many of the large lake specialists are taking credit for the turn around in the productivity of these large lakes based on their management plans, Thank mother nature instead!!

As far as lowering fishing limits and slot sizes, I am in favor of lowering slot sizes on Northern pike in hopes of stimulating more large pike statewide, god knows pike aren't what they use to be as far as average size! I feel that 10 crappies per person per trip is plenty. I don't agree with being size selective either! Most crappies you try and release in 30' feet of water or more usually die. So a person should keep whatever they catch unless your fishing in shallow water and fighting the fish very slow allowing them time to adjust to pressure changes.

Slot sizes on Mille Lace I don't agree with! When you initiate slot sizes as they have on Mille Lacs and other systems to promote trophy fisheries, you end up with fishermen catching lots of large fish that are outside the slot and as you know quite a few of these fish die because they are not handled in a proper catch and release manor.
I think the limit should be lowered to 4 on our smaller lakes! Because of the status of our large walleye producers, the walleye limits should remain the same!!

I think 4 walleyes is fair on smaller lakes. If you only get out fishing twice a year and you have a family of 6 to feed, make sure you take the whole family fishing! That's 24 fish! I can't eat 24 fish myself.

If you find yourself not happy with the status of the lakes your fishing, or your not happy with state imposed regulations you can always discover new lakes to fish. There's over 15 thousand lakes over 7 acres to try and if that's not enough you can always go to Canada, make sure you have a lodging receipt before you bring those fish back over the border!!

[Guest]

Wow great topic, the only comment I have is that I don't think enforcement is a big issue when looking at slots. Most people follow the current regs, there is no reason to believe they would not follow news ones. Ethicical practices in fishing and hunting don't require much enforcement. Education of the public as the the rational for slots would make it even more of a non-issue. People that are out to "get all they can" will do it with out regard to regulations.

[almosthaddabite]

"Most people follow the current regs"

I would hope this is a true statement. Twice coming back from LOW we were stopped by a DNR road check. When we saw the number of walleyes confiscated, I totally flipped. Talking to the CO's it was embarassing how many fisherman were in violation.

[chunkytrout]

Embarassing is about the most correct term i can come up with. I might not always agree with the rules but i abide. Witnessed the same thing bird hunting this fall. Sad,,,,,