Anyone buy a lab pup?

[Esoxmn]

My wife bought a lab pup from a guy with a horse trailer, his name was Justin, across the street from Cabelas in Rogers a little over a month ago. We still have not received the papers he was supose to send. I found it a little odd that the pups were 13 weeks old and he did not have the registration papers yet. She did not get his phone number or adress. Did anyone else buy a pup from this guy? if so have you recieved any thing?

[LABS4ME]

Esoxmn,

1st off, let me say that I hope that this all works out in the end.

But I will add this... to all thinking of buying a pup from a roving vendor, THINK TWICE! You are not doing your self any favors, nor are you helping the dog breeding world.

More often than not, these are the new form of puppy mills. Many times you will never recieve your registration because they are not purebreds, or from un-registered parents or the breeder themselves have been banned form the AKC. You owe it to yourself and the puppy, that you've used due diligence in the selection process to minimize chances of inherited disorders and to maximize the natural potential of your hunting buddy. If these pups were 13 weeks old, how were they socialized? What conditions were they raised in? What vet records were passed on to the new owner? Why no contact information given... etc. etc.

I'm not chastizing you or your wife, but I'm just trying to get the word out to not buy puppies from these "breeders". I know it's hard to pass up on a cuddley new puppy, but there are many better ways to go about selecting a puppy. Cabelas and other places like them need to tke a stand and kick these guys out of their parking lots.

In the end, the papers are a fairly meaningless piece of paper, unless you plan on using the dog for a breeding program, or to run in trials. I have a very good pup out of one of my breedings that I won't even bother sending in the registration papers as I will never breed her. Why give the AKC money for no end purpose? There is no end benefit to having a registration number on a dog that will not be used for anything other than hunting and a pet. Being given the papers may give solice to the fact that you indeed got a pure bred, but if you weren't given the pedigree, and you don't trust the breeder, it is NOT a guarantee that the pup is as described. Breeders have cheated the system for decades and will continue to do so. That is another reason to really check into who you are buying a pup from.

Did he supply a pedigree to you? If so get the stud dog's name or his dam's name and go through the AKC to begin to track him down. My guess is there will be no record of this breeding, but if the parents are registered and they were legitimatley the ones that produced the offspring, you may get lucky and track him down via that route.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Ryan Becklund]

Sorry to hear about you mis-fortune...I had it happen to me 4 years ago with my GSP. I have the name and phone number but the guy won't send me the papers. both dogs are registered also. So I guess what I am saying to you is good luck. Been there and it sucks! Never buy a pup without having the puppy papers in hand never except that the papers have not gotten there yet!

[LABS4ME]

Well slayer... I guess that means a lot of the people who have bought puppies from me, shouldn't have bought them then. I've had a couple of litters in which the papers were not available when the pups were due to be picked up... once due to a problem getting the paper work back from the stud dog's owner and the other time I plain got the papers in a week later than I anticipated and they were slow coming back from the AKC. Thus the need to mail them out a week after they went home.

The difference is this... I was (am) a reputable breeder and can back it up with references... also,

The people come to my house and pick up there puppies, they know where I live, they have my address and a phone number.

I have 3 pages of paper work to fill out in duplicate with each new owner and in the contract it states the pups are purebred, from the breeding described and shall have papers. If I don't dole them out, I will be spending a lot of time in court. The owners retain a copy of the contract too.

A blanket statememt like:

Quote:

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Never buy a pup without having the puppy papers in hand never except that the papers have not gotten there yet!

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doesn't quite read "one size fits all"! KNOW YOUR BREEDER!

Good Luck!

Ken

[Esoxmn]

The papers realy arent that big of a deal. I just wonder if it actually purebred. My first thought was also how well they were socialized at 13 weeks. She was ok for the first week or so a little timid but, i thought she would get more comfortable. now she is fine with us and my two kids can do about anythimg to her with no problems but she is very scared of strangers. she will growl and bark with the hair on her back standing up she even snaped at my father in law when he tried to pet her.

[Ryan Becklund]

Ken, Wasn't pointing fingers or trying to say you were not a respectable breeder...that was not the attempt at all. I was told by the AKC years ago that when a litter is planned the breeder has plenty of time to get the papers before the pup is ready to go and that you should not take the pup without the papers. But, in your instance I guess I wouldn't have a problem doing that at all. It all matters on the circumstances I guess. The pup I got was from SD and I picked up the pup from his house as well. I guess all I can say is be careful even a friend of a friend can screw you over. Water under the bridge I guess....lol

[LABS4ME]

Quote:

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I was told by the AKC years ago that when a litter is planned the breeder has plenty of time to get the papers before the pup is ready to go and that you should not take the pup without the papers.

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Except you can't apply for the puppy's papers till after they are born. And then the stud dog owner needs to sign off on the application too. That is the conundrom I ran into... an out of state stud dog, and mailing the application to him which is a delay in the process from me to him, and then back to me again (after he sat on them for a week and a half) and then on to the AKC and then the puppy papers back to me. It isn't a seamless opperation. Most times I can get the papers here prior to them going home... but there have been occassions as I posted.

I wasn't offended and didn't feel you were implying I wasn't a respectable breeder, no harm, no foul. I'm just showing that not having the papers in had when you pick up the pup is not a deal ender... you just need to make sure that you fully trust the breeder you are dealing with. I try to instill trust by doing the sale on a professional level. My contract is written and spells out everything and it isn't a handshake deal. I wouldn't take too many breeders oral contract as carved in stone... when you end up in court, it will be a "he said - she said" dilema that probably will not be judged in a fair manner for either side. I bet most puppies have a "guarantee" but yet neither the breeder nor the puppy owner have any idea what the guarantee actually is!

Good Luck!

Ken

[GotOne]

Ken, Do you have any pups in the picture in the next several months? I have been reading your posts on this site for a very long time and I greatly appreciate your knowledge and honesty. You seem like a person who's "hand shake" would still be worth something. My lab is 12+ years old and I am going to need a new addition (yellow) to the family in the future.

[springerspeed]

Quote:

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Cabelas and other places like them need to tke a stand and kick these guys out of their parking lots.

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I just wanted to clarify that the Cabelas in Rogers does not allow people to sell dogs in their parking lots. That is why they are across the street from the parking lot. This property does not belong to Cabelas but, they still have the exposure to the Cabelas crowd and they can not do anything about it.

Buyer beware when buying a dog. If you do your homework you will find out very quickly if the person is a reputable breeder or not. Most breeders will hurt themselves trying to gush over their dogs if they are worth anything and will have people that have purchased dogs from them that feel the same available for you to contact and ask questions.

[LABS4ME]

Wallabee,

I have occassional litters and may have one planned for this spring. I will post the info here and in the puppy for sale forum to anyone interested, so they know when they are coming. Thanks for the kind words.

Good Luck!

Ken

[Wayne Sieber]

Wallabee,

My advice to you is if you are looking for a Lab and can wait for one of Ken's litters, wait. You hit the nail on the head with you "handshake" comment - I know this first hand as I was one of the buyers from the litter he mentioned where the papers were delayed but after meeting him and his family at his home, I knew right away that this was a legit deal and honestly, we couldn't be happier with the pup (Jett) we bought!

Wayne.

[duckbuster]

Wallabee, I wouldn't trust Ken as far as I could throw him. Most things he says on this forum is hogwash and he can't hunt or fish.

I can say all this even though I have never met the man!!!

[duckbuster]

Ken, You know that I am just kidding!!!!

I am not sure there is a more in tuned guy on this forum then Ken. I have never met Ken but by the way he words things and what those words say he is a man of extreme dog knowledge!!!!!

[LABS4ME]

Thanks Wayne,

i was sitting at my desk the other day thinking "I wonder how Jett has come along this year"... Cash has made great strides and is a really nice pheasant dog... I haven't had her out on ducks as I only did the SD trip this year... but she is as in control as any 2 year old dog I've ever ran when it comes to pheasants. 3 days in SD, 1 nick on the collar the 1st day and hardly a command after that!

DuckBuster... and just how far do you think you can throw me?! How are those pups of yours coming along? Maybe this is the year we meet up and ice fish together...? I know Wayne and I planned it last year, but it didn't materialize.

Good Luck!

Ken

[duckbuster]

LABS, I think for the most part they are doing OK. The lady out in Maryland washed hers out already.

The guy in Virginia, North Carolina and Alabama have theirs with HT pro's. There are 4 with my dogs pro right now down in Alabama. My female, the mother is down there right now as well.

So far things look good, most of them are thru the yard and were ready for the double T and swim bye.

I am not sure I told you this but we got a 2nd in the Amateur in Duluth this past fall. If we can get lucky and win something between now and mid June she will qualify for the National out in Vermont this summer.

[LABS4ME]

Dang Brotha! Congrats on the second!!! Get that win under your belt... it'd be cool to see you run the Nationals!

Good Luck!

Ken

[The_Duckslayer]

Also the Cabelas in Owatonna does no thave them set up on their property. They all set up across the street. I have seen them there and I never even stop and look because of the "lure of a new puppy". I plan to get another pup in the future and I would look to some one like Labs to get one from so that I know that the dog has been bred with the best possible chance of not having any issues. Take care and N Joy the Hunt././jimbo

[Bryce]

Have had the pleasure of hunting with Labs. Listen up when he talks hounds. Have also had chance to fish by Ken and see him eat. Good luck throwing him and don't worry about a fillet knife . Up in the air about when Jezebel heads to Texas. Greg doesn't have a full truck so may delay trip a few weeks. Hope to finish up her Senior and run a few more Qualifiers. She stomped the land triple in the Q she ran this fall and then proceeded to auto cast into the standing corn while sitting within 3 feet of the bird on second whistle of land blind.