What's a "shelter"?

[Guest]

I heard of people suggesting that if one were to use their vehicle as a shelter; i.e. fish off the tailgate of a pickup with a topper, or out of the door of the car or truck, that it may be considered as a shelter, and therefor require a license be carried on the individual.

Is there any truth to this?

thanks, Westlin

[Guest]

The way I read the law is that ANYTHING you use for shelter needs a registration, portable, permanent, five gallon bucket, cardboard box and yes even a truck with a topper.

Seems stupid I know, but remember where your money is going and how much your money is needed by the MNDNR. If it makes you mad just think of it like you are donating money to the fish, instead of gas money for the CO's to drive around with. I "donate" well over a hundred dollars by purchasing licenses, and registrations every year. If MNDNR stopped stocking, doing surveys, quit building/maintaining accesses, then I would feel like I was getting ripped off. But as much as people complain they do a good job and should be paid for it.

You can read the section where it talks about it, heck even give them a call. But I was told that ANYTHING I use for shelter needs to be registered.

morriscode

[vikingtom]

Wrong, u don't have to get apremit for a bucket or a vehicle to sit on or in. Vehicle is all ready got a licence. My the box u sit in has too, but not the bucket if you're sitting out in the open. As for a car or truck, still don't need one.

[vikingtom]

I also checked with DNR. That was their reply

[Guest]

Interesting....I am going to have to make another call. I was told last year from a CO that anything you use to protect yourself from the elements is considered a shelter and needs a permit. I can see why you might not need one on a vehicle, being that you have already paid for it's license and registration.

The 5 gal. bucket thing was kind of a joke, but I suppose if you were small enough to fit in one you would be protecting yourself from elements, therefor using it as a shelter, therefor needing a permit. I know it's kind of far fetched but thats what shelter is, *protection* against the *elements* for your *person*.

This doesnt mean you need a permit for your choppers though....but lets not give em anymore ideas

morriscode

[The Chemist]

I have never heard of fishing from a vehicle as requiriing a license, but I have seen where a guy had this box sled made of wood that he would prop up on end and then sit in it required on.

The best way to protect yourself is not to call the DNR but rather to e-mail them. This way you have a copy of a statement from the powers that be and can present it to a CO in the field if you should have any problems.

[vikingtom]

Graffitigreg

THE DNR SAYS: Your recent inquiries to the Info Center were forwarded to me. I am not sure of the history involved in the inquiry, so some of what I relate to you may be repetition. Please bear in mind that as a rule I will give you the strictest interpretation; officers can and do use discretion based on a totality of circumstances that would be impossible to address here, but hopefully in keeping with the intent or spirit of the law. Another variable in the equation will be the 87 different county attorneys and their respective interpretations of law. They make the ultimate decision about cases that may or may not go to court in their jurisdictions. My comments/answers below.

QUESTION #1: I have two ice fishing houses, a permanent and a portable. Is it legal for me to buy only one shelter license and move it from house to house as long as the shelter license is on the house I am fishing from?

ANSWER #1: You can use the same license for both shelters.

QUESTION #2: Does a vacant fish house, on the lake, require a shelter license if it is not in use?

ANSWER #2: I am unsure of the context of your original question, so will give a bit of background. Fish houses and dark houses need only be licensed (except on some boundary waters) when being used for fishing. You could have a whole handful of houses/shelters, say on different lakes or different bays or reefs on the same lake, but if you only fished from one at a time; you could get by with one license. This must not be confused with marking with your ID. That is required of all houses and shelters placed on the ice, even if not occupied. Now, if a fish house is being used only to observe tip-ups from, the way Minnesota law is constructed, you would still need to have it both marked and licensed. You can have more than one fish house out at a time, so long as all are marked. (you) Only need to license the one being currently used for fishing.

QUESTION #3: Is my vacant, locked, and unlicensed house in violation?

ANSWER #3: No. You are OK as long as it is marked with ID.

QUESTION #4: If I am fishing tip-ups, and I’m on the ice sitting in my vehicle watching the lines, does my vehicle need a shelter license?

ANSWER #4: No, your vehicle does not need to be licensed as a fish house.

QUESTION# 4A: Answer #4 seems to be clear, cut, and dried. It says to me, “A vehicle is never considered a shelter” is that correct? As an example say I took my pick-up and camper ice fishing for the weekend. I ate, slept, and watched my bobbers or tip-ups through the windows - My pick-up and camper is still not a shelter and it doesn’t need a shelter license correct?

ANSWER #4A. OK, lots of gray area here. I have seen vehicles of one sort or another left on the ice with holes drilled in them and rigged to be used as fish houses, and as such requiring marking and licensing as a fish house. That is generally not going to be the case, though. The normal situation of somebody using a car or truck to warm up in while watching their tip-ups or between turns on the jiggle stick aren't generally going to be considered situations requiring a shelter license. But please remember that CO's base their decisions on the totality of circumstances, so to say a shelter license is never required on a vehicle could be misleading.

A camper trailer may be a whole different ball game, as they are far more likely to be left on the ice for extended periods of time, adapted to use as fish houses, and at the very least sat in while watching tip-ups out the window. The only difference between a normal fish house and a camper trailer is the wheels, so it is how they are used that will make the difference between needing a license or not. Safest assumption is that camper trailers will require both a license and ID markings.

QUESTION #5: New question--I'm fishing crappies. If I want to practice catch and release and take home a limit, do I have to stop after my 14th fish, do catch and release until I want to leave and then keep the 15th fish, OR--can I throw 15 into the bucket right away and practice catch and release until I go?

ANSWER #5: Minnesota law interprets 'taking' as any including any 'attempt to take’. Again, this is the strictest interpretation. So, if you intend to do catch and release, catch your 14 crappies and do catch and release until you get #15. If you continue to fish after that, an officer could, based again on the totality of what he/she observes, cite you for catching beyond your limit.

I hope this has been of some help.

Information and Education Manager
Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
Enforcement Division
Box 47, 500 Lafayette Rd.
St. Paul, MN 55155-4047

Read then make a call

[vikingtom]

That's what was found out last last. I've been looking in the book and don't see any changes. Let's Fish

[Surface Tension]

Anything shelter/windblock with 3 sides used while fishing requires a license. You may have had a CO tell you you need a license to sit in your truck but he is wrong,imagine that. There was a good thread in the Red Lake forum with a response from the DNR last year that covered this well.

[vikingtom]

That's my copy in my wallet.

[Guest]

Thanks for clearing that up VikingTom. So it is pretty much up the ol' C.O.

Does he feel like being a Dick?
How many tickets has he written that day?
Have you been catching fish?
How Many?

Yup, the ol' unwritten rule of just about anyone who enforces the law. What mood are they in?

Which is COMPLETE talk by the way?

Amazing this day in age we still have a ton of stuff like this. Kinda makes you think about why they wont say one way or the other? After all how are we supposed to know if the C.O. that we are about to run into will give us a ticket? Chalk another one up for the state of MN cuz it's a win-win situation for them.....after all whats better than a law?....A law that is left for the interpretation of the enforcer!!

morriscode

[Fish On! Guide Service]

So hypothetically speaking, if a guy made a wind block out of snow, he could be held liable?

[roadkingclasic56]

Back in the day, on a very reomte and difficult lake to get to, a friend and I fished tip-ups one day and while watching the flags made a huge pile of the available snow on the lake. About a week went before we returned to the lake and the pile of snow was frozen hard. We proceeded to tunnel in and create a room on the inside to get out of the wind. Cozy in there. We would take turns sticking our heads out of the door way to check flags. Never occurred to us it may need a license. We were a long way off the beaten path and never checked but the way it sounds we could have been in trouble. :{ Snow forts need a license?

[Guest]

Thats what I am saying FishON!

Who is to say....the Conservation Officer and his mood!!!

Amazing that they can have "laws" like this, even more amazing that no one has challenged this. I mean they could just say anything that blocks the elements is considered shelter and requires a permit except for a registered motor vehicle in the state of MN. BAM, it's done I just created more revenue for MNDNR, cleared up the gray area and took the "up to the interpretation of the officer" scenario out of play.

morriscode

[Surface Tension]

Tom Yep thats the thread I was referring to.
Fish On!
If the wind block made out of snow has 3 or more sides then you need a license. Common sense would say tear it down when your done for the day so no one drives into it and kills themselves.

[This message has been edited by Surface Tension (edited 01-13-2003).]

[IcePro]

Think about this one!

Bring Your snow blower with ice fishing.

When there is alot of snow on the ice keep blowing snow into a big cirlce over your favorite fishing area to create a big wind break. Put your name on the snow made shelter and your license. Now no other fisherman can fish in your spot because they would be fishing in your shelter. You could stake your clam.

RESULT: A small flat on Mille Lacs that is personally yours.

[The Chemist]

I believe the law states that another shelter can not be erected w/ 10 ft of another. That would be funny to see.

[Guest]

Here is what you could do.
Go out gather all the snow you can with your plow or snowblower. Then make a huge pile over your favorite spot on the lake and tunnel in and make a home. Then stick a sign out of the side or top of the pile with your name and license on it.
As The Chemist said "another shelter can not be erected w/ 10 ft of another" so put a snow fence up around your whole "house"! So when it snows or the wind blows you can easily gain more snow to "add on" and you wouldnt loose that much snow either!!!
Now what do you think of that.

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FISHSTUNNER

[This message has been edited by fishstunner (edited 01-13-2003).]

[Surface Tension]

fishstunner Why not use blocks of ice instead.

[chunkytrout]

Our CO up here ticketed some college boys for their ice block shelter a couple of years ago. Interesting topic.

[Guest]

Surface Tension, we can cut this area of ice bocks out were 1/2 of our fav spot is so that is fenced off and then use the other 1/2 to build our ice house!!!

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FISHSTUNNER

[LOW Lover]

A couple weeks ago out on Bald Eagle the party that I was fishing with got checked by two CO's. Because I did not have my Trap set up it was viewed as a sled (I did have a fish house permit), however, a friend who had his half way up was checked for his permit which he did not have and was tagged.
Anyone have the same experience?

Low Lover

[Guest]

The law is vague and it appears we are getting mixed answers from the people who are supposed to know the laws back and forth.

LOW lover, your friend was ticketed for using a piece of shelter without a permit. I have also heard of people getting tickets doing what you were, so consider yourself smart that you bought a permit, and lucky they didnt check in case you didnt buy one.

So, if I used the ol fridge box, piled my gear on it and pulled it out to the lake, took my gear off and propped the box up to block the wind I could get a ticket? I dont see how they can make a call as to what shelter is. One guys shelter could be an old box, while another way more fortunate guy has an Otter, Fishtrap or whatever. I see one being used only for ice fishing and the other used for something else but they can both be used as shelters.

Viking Tom experience says NO ticket
LOW's experience the other day says YES ticket? Kinda fuzzy on this one

morriscode

[JAR JAR]

I was told by a CO that you can not sit in your vehicle and fish because it will be considered a " shelter" nor could I put up a wind block either but I could sit behind my truck and use it for a wind block (funny thing).
I wonder , what if I were to stand behind my 350 lb buddy would I need a shelter permit for him?????

Just Thinkin

Jar Jar

[jegerjack]

I need to put my name and address on my portable but I did not have time between work and when I was going to go up to my friends cabin, so I asked my wife to make me one. I told her that the regs but I think she took me to literally. I had a laminated sign that had my name and both my address and license number. The funniest thing about it was the letters where about 4 inches tall!! So a conservation officer comes walking up and the first thing he mentions is that he saw the sign from the other side of the lake, mind you I have a pretty small portable. Well the officer got a nice chuckle at lest......

JegerJack

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"What did the old man trade for these guys, a used puck bag?"