Why Not More Trails?

[Swimstein]

I have heard there are now more ATVs in MN than snowmobiles; however, there are many more miles of snowmobile trails than trails for ATVs. Seems something is wrong there. The state could open more trails for ATVs on public lands. Why not use some of the snowmobile trails, particularly some of the more isolated trails in the north country? Maybe there would need to be some restrictions on use during hunting seasons. Wonder if there are some state or local politicians to contact that might support more trails?

[Surface Tension]

Bill, theres lot of trails up north to ride an ATV. Its just that there isn't a big sign designating them as ATV trails. The North Shore trail was looked at and determined theres to much low land. So to be used as an ATV trail parts of it would have to be rerouted. I don't know if anyone has taken that on as of yet. Then theres the private land owners that allow winter use but won't allow ATV use. So that means more rerouting. It takes determination, organization, a lot of leg work, and someone that'll follow through to make it work. Snowmobile clubs do that. When a land owner gets pressured by a certain group to deny further access, its snowmobile clubs that start knocking on doors to get that access or reroute that trail, not the DNR. I know one member of a local club that has taken on that role many times. Granted to get an ATV trail through is a lot more difficult then a snowmobile trail but that reason why is what ATV riders has to realize. Northern MN is full of spruce swamps and bog. Combine that with private land = road block for ATV trail. When I see the envy ATV riders have for snowmobile trail systems, they don't realize how much work the Clubs did and do to get those trails, much of it by themselves. I can appreciate that frustration of wanting and willing to do that work by ATV clubs but not able to because of the red tape involved.

However don't hold that against the Snowmobile clubs and the trail system.

Back to trails to ride up north. They are there but like a secret little lake, not many people are talking about them.

[wally-eye]

Well said Surface Tension.

[Hammer Handle]

As a land owner that has a snowmobile trail through my land (which I hope to close soon), 4-wheelers cause too much damage. I don't have a low area, but after a rain the 4-wheelers "invade" and tear up vegetation.

Due to this abuse, I hope to close my land for all...including snowmobiles. I am tired of policing my own land and it is getting worse and worse. I live 120 miles from this land, so I can't look at it everyday.

I am sorry this will affect the snowmobilers also, but what else can I do?

I know "most" ATVers care for the land...but there is many many bad apples out there and a lot of bad press. Getting more trails is only going to get harder.

[beeonkey]

As a Vise President of a snowmobile club please don't close it!! Ask the local club to fence it gate it sign it what ever it takes to stop what you don't like happening. They I'm sure will do what ever it takes to help you. Please ask them for help before you think of closing a trail that many, many good apples can still enjoy. Thanks

[Hammer Handle]

I have talked to them several times. Two gates were put up...and people cut the brush by the gates and drive around them. The trail association put up two signs...and I put up two of my own on one gate (4 signs), and people don't care and still drive in. One gate has been down (broke off) all year...and no one comes out to fix it. This weekend, I will fix it myself.

I planted 30 small pine trees by hand 30 feet from the trail. In 3 years, 2 are left alive. I find most of them sheared off by snowmobiles as they drive over them.

I called just the other day and want it closed. It is late in the year, so I said I will let it go one more year. Next year, it will be closed unless something miraclulous happens.

I mentioned this to my neighbor last weekend, and he said he has complained too and the trail association has done what they can...but things still happen. He said if my part closes (crosses 80 acres), he will close his too.

The trail association has done all they could (I feel). They are very nice people and understanding.

Many good people do use the trail. Many more than "bad" people. But, it is taking away from me enjoying my land. What happens if I accidently shoot a jogger on my trail during hunting season? The woods on this trail had many deer on it...the last three years it hasn't while all the woods next to it (much owned by my family) does. I think the traffic on the trail scares them out.

I have called three years in a row now with complaints. After this last summer, it is time to move on.

Us land owners get nothing for donating land for trails. Not even a tax break or anything. We don't even get to use the trail for free for our snowmobiles. The trail association treats us to a picnic once a year, which I don't attend for I live too far away...and that is it.

I am sorry for the many many nice and friendly drivers. I hope they understand and don't get mad at me, but the people that break the rules.

I can't wait until the trail closes AND it grows up in trees. I hope the issues will finally be gone then.

[Hammer Handle]

The trail I am talking about is in Douglas County.

Just an FYI.

Like I said, the person I talked to the other day was very thoughtful and caring and listened to my complaints. But, what can he do?

[Roofer]

I have had this discussion with hammerhandle a few times already. Close the trail and be done with it. They will re-route around your property.

The trails on the north shore are still open and they are making more trails. We were just there for the past week riding and they are great trails.

The only way to get more trails is to join atvam and bide your time or buy your own land and make your own trails.

[Swimstein]

My original post was advocating more trails on suitable public, not private, land. There will probably always be some abusers out there; however, there are a growing number of wheelers and limited places to run. If the public agencies could create more trails and take some of the pressure off, then private property owners might not feel so disadvantaged. Licenses (or use permits) could address the different uses of ATVs with those confined to ones own private property at lowest cost. Recreational wheelers might pay more, but the additional cost could be earmarked for maintaining public trails.

While these and other ideas have been around, keeping the debate alive may lead to a solution to this problem.

[thistlekicker]

Just curious if anyone has heard of efforts to classify and identify existing roads/trails to be prioritized for ATV use designation, whether by land management agencies (DNR,USFS, etc) or by ATV rider groups? There seems to be a need but who is working on it?

For example, I know Superior National Forest has been working on an inventory of forest roads, but I don't think their focus is helping to prioritize appropriate ATV trails.

It seems like if some explicit criteria could be set in terms of minimizing stream crossings, avoid lowlying/wetlands and other sensitive features (bird nesting areas, habitat for protected species,etc), this selection and proposal process could be done relatively easily using a GIS, given of course a good baseline dataset to work with.

Maybe this is something the DNR is working on, but if I were into riding, I would get proactive in terms of proposing appropriate roads/trails to be designated. And maybe this is something that's already going on. But I haven't heard much about it, if this is the case.

Just a thought...jeez maybe I should get in touch with MRR and CWCS and see if they'd offer joint funding for me to do this project. Or would that be like dogs and cats living together?

[Roofer]

I don't know the specifics, but here is what I have heard. This is in Silver Bay/Finland area. They are taking the few trails they have that are already on roads and making trails through the woods. There is also federal money for these trails, but again I don't know the specifics or who exactly to get ahold of. Supposedly there was minor complaints from the atv'ers about logging trucks sharing the road/trail with them. To make it easier they are taking the trails off-road and are adding more trails soon.