Training a Lab To Point!

[Harmonica Bear]

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OK - I have to ask. If these labs are not truly pointing as some of you say, can we then say that when a pointer retrieves, they really aren't retrieving, but are only doing what they were trained to do? Let's not call it a retrieve, only that they are "carrying game," kind of like "standing game."

After all, if a lab can't point, then, a pointer can't retrieve, right? Some of you guys really crack me up.

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Now that is good humor! Although I hate to throw a "yeah but" in there, but with my last two setters and my current one you not that far off. They retreive (or "carry game") naturally...sort of. To really no-fault retreive it has and will take training just like everything.

[gspman]

This pointing lab topic invariably blows up on every message board I go on. For some reason people always get their undies in a bunch over PL's. If you have a dog, any dog, that points instinctively or was trained to point and it makes you happy and proud then that's wonderful.

There are specialists that will do certain things better than a generalist. If you own a specialist dog there's no need to condemn those who are training their dog to do what the specialist does. If it makes them happy sobeit. There's certainly no reason to feel threatened by it. It may not look right to you but it's not your dog and you don't have to hunt with it so why do you care.

gspman

[Shack]

311 hemi,

All of your pictures are great. The first one is the best. I like the front/right paw. What ever they call this, "standing game" or "pointing" (it seems like a very proper point to me) this is what my goal is (could be a pipe dream).Before any formal training to "stand game"; my Dakota would react like third photo to game in the field. After several week now of training, she reacts similar to dog in the second photo. I guess what I am looking for is my dog to alert me in the field as to when game are in an area and not flush them until I command her to do so. Anyone who denounces furthering training a dog to do something the master wants does not realize this is the whole aspect of training to begin with. I feel with time and perseverance, my goal might be reached. I do not want to go and buy a pointer and start from the beginning, when I have a very well trained dog to work with. I would just like to further a characteristics my dog shows signs of already having. I never researched her past and never had stated that their is no history in her past of pointing lab blood. Who knows, we will see what the next month holds. Thanks again!

SHACKBASH

[Shack]

At this point Pointing Lab stock could be a possiblity, I do not know.

[311Hemi]

LOL....I agree..I like that first pic alot!

JDM...nice post...that was good!

And..not to beat a dead horse..but you are right in what you are thinking:

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(it seems like a very proper point to me)

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However...if you are able to train your dog to do something similar (eg. standing game), that is great. It's all about what each hunter wants and everyone is different. I would not condemn someone for training anything...it's up to them and what makes them happy. If they want to train their dog to be "a retriever" then so be it!

My argument in this topic has been mainly that "standing game" and natural point are in fact different thing (as has already been discussed, and (getting off topic on pointing labs and away from the standing game post) to show people who don't believe that labs do naturally point...and that they do so without any training!

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If you have a dog, any dog, that points instinctively or was trained to point and it makes you happy and proud then that's wonderful.

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I agree GSPMAN!

[gspman]

Shack,

Don't worry about having a front paw up. Some dogs do that and some don't. The paw being up has nothing to do with pointing. Actually saw a novice trainer trying to get his new pup to do that once. Couldn't figure out what the heck he was doing until I asked him. Let the dog's feet do what they want to as long as they're not moving. If you want your dog to have some style get the tail pointing straight up like this... It looks much nicer than a level tail.

All 3 labs in those pics look like they're pointing & not standing. Pic #1 is right on top of the bird. Ideally the dog should be farther away from the bird. Pic #2 looks like he might be creeping. Creeping is generally a no-no. Pic #3 is what you want. A dog that generally points from a ways off the bird. The dog in pic #3 actually has half decent style too.

[LABS4ME]

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If you want your dog to have some style get the tail pointing straight up like this...

It looks much nicer than a level tail.

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When did'ya cut off your dog's tail???

Good Luck!

Ken

[gspman]

Yer killin' me Labs. I wish that were my dog. It's an Elhew Pointer. I'll come back into my chosen breed now. Here's a high tail on a shorthair. This is what I like looking at. A classy stylish point with the dog high & tight on both ends.

[kgpcr4]

I agree they look like points to me as well. Thats what my Pointing Lab does when she goes on point. Also who said a pointer cant retrieve?? I have seem many that did a fine job of it!

[fishin5]

Ok...I held off as long as I could. My personal feeling is that this debate comes down to an east/west issue at least as far as upland goes. In what I'll call the "west" (roughly an hour west of I29 and south of Iowa) birds are not concentrated in "small" areas of cover. You need a big running dog to find birds...and then you find the dog. We hunt a ranch in ND for Sharps that is 63 sections! We do it off of horse back and have a ball!!! Quail in the south and south west are the same story. You need a dog that can efficiantly find game and the wait for you to find him.

Ruffies are a differant story...my GWP and VDD will find a ton of ruffs that I cant get my fat butt through the thick to. same thing with large cattail stands...the limitation isn't on the dog, it's on my ability to get to the dog

That being said when anyone asks me what kind of dog they should get, I tell them it is my opinion that the "best" dog for the upper midwest is a lab. The majority of the cover in this area is best suited for labs ( or Clumber spanials!!) and they generally are personable, easily trained dogs.

The next best breed would be any of the "versitale" breeds with the deciding factor probably being coat prefferance or if the dog is used at all for waterfowl.

Now that I've vented that off my chest, lets get to the first message of this thread. In my 20 years of traing GWP and VDD the ONLY thing I haven't had to train them to do is how to Point. I have to train them to come, sit, heel, down, and yes I force break all my dogs (as should all hunting dog owners including lab owners). Most all of my dogs retrive naturally, but I want that to be a command so there is no question to bring the game back.

Just my 2 scents worth. you don't have to listen to me...no one else does!