Bait Size?

[rushing]

Has anyone notice a bait size preference change from spring till fall for flats?

All I know is fly fishing for trout, and a kinda loose rule is bigger in the spring then growing smaller towards fall.

The Flats have been biting really light latley. Last night I would get a quick pole bend then they were gone. I have been using 8/0 circles but I'm thinking moving to a regular hook since they are just chomping then leaving. Any thoughts? My buddy did get a 27lb flat last night.

Tight Lines!

Rob

[Dennis Steele]

Pick up that rod next time you get a thump or short run!There are good odds that he is still there!Put your finger on the line(DO NOT Wrap your finger in it!) as you slowly reel in untill the line is tight.If you feel a kind of crunching on the line,daddy is home.Flats do not always run.Sometimes they will just have thier snack where they find it,or in some locations they will head towards you.You never know they are there unless you are keeping your eye on the rod tip.Many times I have found my line upstream with a fish on it when I went to check my bait.This usually happens when you are fishing the tail of a hole as they tend to move back to the hole but if they are still on the hunt, they may be making the rounds and still on the move.Saturday night I picked up two flats that only gave me a rap on the rod and then just a slight bend of the tip.The reels I use have adjustable tension on the clickers(bait feeders)and were set as light as possible and they did not click at all.

As far as bait size I typically go smaller when the water temps are cooler in the spring.During the warmer months their metabolism is higher and they need to feed more.

[rushing]

A couple of several times I thought my line was heading upstream or at least my line had become slack and so I reeled in slowly and there was sometimes a fish there but it seems like they haven't been takin in the whole bully so they aren't getting hooked and the bullhead is just pulling out of their mouths. I have even started to clip the spines off the bullies thinking they my be getting stung or something??

I too have an adjustable clicker and I was setting it just enough not to be pulled out by the current. I did have one long SLOW run but when I turned off clicker and slowly lifted the rod it just let go of the bully.

Dennis you'll just have to show me how its done later this month!

Silly kitties!

Rob

[Guest]

From the "Eddy's Brain Fart File"

Fishhead have you tried my "Knuckling" thing on them "Sit down UN-Eat Kitty's" yet?

Big moody sluggish sumo channels will sniff out a meal, feel it up a bit, munch it or not, an lay there like a fat toad. Or they sit and sniff it a while, eye-balling it up and down.

You may see a few pecker type wiggles on the rod tip but that is about it. That is when I slip the rod out of the Driftmaster and ease up the slack.

Then I "Knucker" it 5-6 times and pause.........."Knuckle"...........Pause.

Most of the time if she is sucking on it she will now chomp again HARD to kill it, thinking it is still kicking. They often make a good run about then too.

I know flattys are live feeders, and have different dinner quirks. But big sumo channels love to kill too Eh. Given they like to kill, the "Knuckle" may inspire them to munch and crush again?

I often get Piggy's to crunch and run when they think that meal may be trying to run off on them. The Lookers into Hookers thing.

Worth a shot Ya?

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"

[This message has been edited by Backwater Eddy (edited 07-15-2003).]

[Aquaman01]

Eddy,
Knuckles? I dinnunnerstan.

------------------
Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
Peace and Fishes

[Guest]

"Knuckling" is a method I came up with to trigger cats into a strike and/or run when they were picky.

The whole theory in a nut shell is this. Cats smell and hears very well, sight is so-so for a cat.

They key in on scent at a greater distance and as they near a bait they hone in a target by sound. That's if the bait/target is producing one. Big Flatheads most likely key in on sound as much if not more then scent. Because they are predators by nature, and secondly scroungers. This is why lively baits are key for them flattys.

"Knuckling" itself is several Dull Raps (5-6 at a series on the fore-grip of the rod.(not a steady rap-rap-rap tell your knuckles bleed)

Dull is key, not metallic clanking sounds. I use my knuckle for this, hence the name. Brilliant Eh?

This "Knuckling" sends low range vibrations down the line to the bait. Low range vibrations imitates a death struggle of a meal in waiting. For me this has often fire up a cat into an attach, or a run.

I showed off this "knuckling" technique on the Bob Jensen "Fishing the Midwest" show we filmed last season on the Red. They were kinda skeptical at first, but quickly seen it work.

It was not too long before I had a couple more "Knuckle Heads" recruited. It worked well and we produced many cats on it.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"

[rushing]

Intresting technique! I will deffintly try this out later this week.

Thanks for the info!

Rob

[Flashman]

I've seen it done, sort of. Saw an old timer would pick up his rod every so often and smack it with a stick. I'll have to remember that trick for future reference.

[Aquaman01]

Thanks Eddy! Now I get it. Will this help with finicky channels, as well as flats?

------------------
Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
Peace and Fishes

[Guest]

Yup, I fish primarily for channel cats, works well. Seen it stir up a few walleye too in the fall.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"

[Canuck]

Eddy, great, U give away all these little secrets, now I am going to have to go out there and dig up a few others just to try and have an advantage. Yes guys kuckling it does sound weird but it DOES work. Also, don't miss what Eddy said about metalic sound because I found that does the exact opposite as knuckling, it chases them away.

[Dennis Steele]

I haven't been useing circles for flats but kahle style hooks.I also hook the bait just under the dorsal at an angle from the rear to the front so that the point is pointed to the tail of the bait.Plus I amke sure that if it is offset that the point is turned up on not down.This way if that bait is in the mouth of a flatty the hook is in the right position to hook that fish.They tend to take a bait head first.I am not sure if it makes a difference but I also cut the spike of the dorsal fin.I think it might help the point find some maw if the bullie is sticking his fins out.I leave the pectoral fins alone thinking that this may help lodge the bullie in the mouth and pop the hook free easier.Don't know for sure,but makes sense to me so I go with it.When i have that line tight I don't waste anytime setting the hook and am very carefull to not let them sense that I am there untill its time to whack!
I have tried the knuckling with channels and it does work.If a kittie is messing around it usually gets him to make up his mind!It might work on flats too but never tried it yet.I have strummed the line but that was usually just to get the bait kicking again.Havn't noticed any corelations to bite when I have done that.Next time I am out with buddies it might be interesting to do a little study.One guy knuckle a rod and the other guy just keep quiet.

[DARK30]

Ok, you sit there and knuckle your rod and I'll see if I can possibly keep quiet.

I've seen people pick up the line and whisper "Here phishee, phishee"....Could work.

Bait size? I'd rather go with a 6-10 inch baitfish the whole year. The big Flats will indeed hit a very large bait but also will hit the medium size ones. You'll catch more fish using medium (6-10") and you'll catch even more if you use them often

Hurry! Halloween is just around the corner!

------------------
cast,cast,cast,cast......

[Guest]

Dark 30 if you can't manage to be be the quiet one, we can give ya a snipe bag. See if ya can rustle up some supper with it.

Here Snipie..Snipie..Snipie..Snipie..Come to Dark30.

Na that job is for the new guys, I forgot.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"

[DARK30]

Sorry, It just painted a terrible picture in my mind thats all...Kinda like when we were standing around down at the Mankato launch..... I told Dragon he gave me a virus and everybody instantly cracked up.

So size dosn't matter and don't let your knuckles turn white!

------------------
cast,cast,cast,cast......

[rushing]

Yeah Dark, that was funny! It made me wonder since I had just met all yall!

virus, knuckling, size doesn't matter

LOL! I hope this is a catfish board!

Rob

[Flashman]

Well I expermented with the "Knucklin" a little last night myself, everything that I did manage to get to bite was very light. I "knuckled" twice, first time I tried..tappy tap tap and low and behold the fish did run with the bait, only to spit it out shortly after. The second attempt at it didn't produce anything; but I think the fish was already gone, just a drive by bite I guess. Or would that be a swim by?