Cutbait Species.....

[Aquaman01]

Yesterday a nice friendly C.O. was giving some other guy a ticket and I asked Officer Friendly what species I could legally use for cutbait. His response? "Any rough fish" and I said "so like sucker, carp, that kind of stuff?" and he said "yes".

So, was Officer Friendly properly interpreting his regulations?
I catch carp 6-1 over sucker, and if it works just as well, I'd rather hack that up, and maybe make a productive dent in that invasive species' population, leaving the native suckers to do their native thing.

------------------
Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
Peace and Fishes

[Hubcat]

Aquaman01 - On inland waters you cannot use carp as bait (copied from fishing regs--Using whole or parts of gamefish,goldfish or carp for bait is unlawful). I am not sure what the regs are for the Mississppi.

I not sure on the rest of rough fish but I would e-mail the DNR to make sure.

Just don't want you to get nailed by a C.O. that has a different opinion.

[EBass]

I've used Sheepshead before. I don't know if it was legal or not. But it worked. I caught a 5-6lb beauty channel.

Anyone use Mooneye. I tried it but only had nibbles.

[Sturgeon46]

I use fresh mackeral and fresh sardines that I buy from Costal Seafood. They are oily as heck.

[fiskyknut]

Sturgeon, Sshhhhh! I can only get'em round froze these days. Where is Coastal located!

[Guest]

On the Red (or all of ND) you can not use any game fish or carp as cut bait. You can use bullheads if cut into chunks. Do not transport live bullheads in ND, that's a no-no.

I avoid using Freshwater Drum. Just smell them once, they are tinny in smell and I have had not much luck with them. In a pinch.......maybe..but not likely would I use them.

My #1 choice is FRESH Mooneye/Goldeye. Then cisco or tulibie if available. Spring and late fall suckers, maybe. I seldom use suckers if I can get my first choice of Mooneye.

I do not use Hearing, squid, woodchuck testicles, gopher guts, Arctic Char, Wallaby Wings, or whatever else mearly because it is not on the cats natural menu in the system.

But to each there own, whatever works for you is cool, as long as it is legal.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"
701-281-2300
[email protected]

[Sturgeon46]

Costal is in St Paul at Grand and Snelling and in Wayzata - not sure of address.

I know Sardines and mackeral are not native but the cats don't seem to mind. I doubt they ever encounter stink baits naturally but they sure seem to like them too.

[Aquaman01]

Anyone ever use sheepshead for cutbait?

------------------
Aquaman
<')}}}}}><{
"The bow is set to distant shore,
then loss is gained and gains once more.
When beach is reached and sails are torn,
the journey is it's own reward."

[fiskyknut]

I have used Drum on occasion on the Red, only when I have nothing else to use though, with rather dismal results.

[fiskyknut]

I like them Goldeyes the best for cutbait on the Red.....Most times. Goldeyes are easy to catch and they work great when fresh. They don't freeze very well so other fish see some use when the Goldeyes don't cooperate. Mooneye I can't say as they are an unusual catch for me on the Red, I get some big mooneye on the Roseau river, and I get some on the Rainy and LOTW now and then as an incidental, figure they don't freeze to well either. Mackerel and Anchovies are great baits sometimes and I've had days where one or both are preferred over any other baits, both of these do freeze well. Sucker freezes well and works okay most times. Seems to me Redhorse types work better than Whites....fresh or frozen. Have'nt had much success with cut Bullheads but I've gotten some Big Cats out of the Red on live Stonecats and Madtoms. Ciscoes have'nt done much for me Catfish wise, though my Catfishing with these is limited as I usually use up all the ones I freeze over winter on those big LOTW prespawn Pikes on my late ice or first open water Pike fishing trips....Big Pike love these. Smelt has'nt done much for me on the Red river Cats either, once again they are a good Pike bait though. Alewife, often sold up here as Herring makes a decent cutbait at times, as do the true marine Herrings when you can get them. These seem to freeze okay too. Sardines I've never tried, but with the success I've had with other marine fishes on the Red and elsewhere I'd like to if I can find some someday. Sheephead are way down on the list of prefered cuts and I only use them when I have nothing else! Cats will eat it though. Something very imporant also when fishing Cats with cutbait is to keep it fresh, don't let it drown out there for too long, throw a fresh chunk on after 20 minutes or so with no bite.

Some folks swear by Shrimp/Prawns, and we have a user on the Red river forum who swears by steak. These are a couple other non-native options for cutbaits. Myself I'll throw these on the barbie to eat myself, plenty of 'cheap' bait out there that the cats like!

Don't underestimate different minnow species as a cutbait option. I catch large Hornyhead/Redtail Chubs, Creek Chubs, Common Shiners, and Golden Shiners on some Red river tribs and these work great on the Red for Cats live or cut. Chubs seem to freeze better than the Shiner species.

Crayfish and Crayfish tails are another good Catfish bait most times.

Liver, hotdogs, spam! I've caught catfish on these too, as well as cheese and marshmellows! Grasshoppers and crickets too, funny how a big fish will bother with such a small food item sometimes!

I think one of the reasons Catfish are way up there in popularity as a gamefish in this country is because they readily eat just about anything they can fit in their mouthes! That and the fact they're so widespread and very easy to catch.

Just don't forget some frogs along with all the cutbait options if your fishing the Red!

Good Day....Fisky

[mnfisherman]

Carp will go after the spam too.

[Guest]

I agree fiskyknut Shrimp/Prawns can be a great cat bait, we done very well with them.

We see Shrimp/Prawns shining especially well on hard bottom areas or near dams. I suspect it is the crayfish connection that makes them so attractive to cats? I like Prawns when I can find them, great scent them Prawns!

Creek chubs are great too, just not all that widely disperses on the Red and harder to locate.

You made another great point on bait diversity. Natural and diverse baits often shine, even the small ones such as leaches and grasshoppers.

Heck I pulled a 12" rat out of a 22" cats stomach this summer. They eat what they want, or can find and kill. The catfish's omnivorous habits are a key factor to it's success and wide spread range.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"
701-281-2300
[email protected]

[MedicineMan]

I just wanted to ask but. Is Goldeye a fatty/oily fish like cisco? Or is it a fairly lean fish?

[Guest]

Very rich, that is why the Red River cats & walleye get so chubby.

[fiskyknut]

Medicineman, Goldeyes and Mooneyes are both very oily, quite bony, and their flesh is rather soft. After freezing and thawing their flesh becomes kind of mushy.

Hey Eddy, I'm curious regarding the Mooneyes. Perhaps you are lumping the 2 together as you said "#1 choice fresh Mooneye/Goldeye", but maybe you are'nt lumping the 2 together cause you later said "my first choice mooneye". Do you catch alot of these down your way? For lack of a more accurate figure I see maybe 1 out of 50, Mooneye vs. Goldeye where I do my baitfishing on the Red. Do you see a substantial difference in fresh Mooneye catching more fish over the fresh Goldeyes? Do you typically catch the Mooneye in the same locations as you catch the Goldeye?

I'm not razzin you with this, just wondering iffin there is a difference. I have used both, but I really have'nt made any comparisons as to how they work, one vs. the other personally as I don't catch very many Mooneyes where I fish.

By the way Happy Birthday Ed.

Good Fishing....Fisky

[Guest]

We get way more Mooneye then Goldeye this far down. We have lots of big Mooneye here, lots. As far as if they Mooneye outproduce Goldeye, naaaaa, no big difference I think.....just that is what is most plentiful and handy.

Actually in the creel surveys we do in this region the true Goldeye is far rarer to find then the Mooneye. As you know the difference is a supple one with the exception of the size, Mooneye tend to get bigger. We catch them 20" or so all the time. The Sheyenne River is thick with them, as are many of the tribs. I love ice fishing for them buggers!

A tip I will give ya is how I store them frozen so they are fresher and firmer to use. I scale and chunk them ASAP when they are caught. I like the "Tootsie Roll" chunking method, I don't [PoorWordUsage] with filleting them out.

Chunk them up fast and store them in a waxy ice cream container in a plastic bag. (I like ice cream so I have a supply on hand.) I feel by doing this quickly you get the freshest scent sealed in and the juices soak into the mass while freezing.

The skin stays tough even after thawing out and will easily stay on a barbless hook. I just slip the circle hook JUST under the skin at the top of the "Tootsie Roll" chunk allowing the hook to remain open to do it's job. Even after a cat whacks it the chunks more often then not stay on the hook, or slip up the line. I swap out baits very often, feed the old bait to them Kitty's. It is rare I have a chunk of cut on a hook longer then 20 min, more like 10.

Fresh is da deal most of the season in my opinion. In the early spring just after ice out sour is cool, they like that sour then. They are tracking winter kill and their metabolism is slow, kinda lazy yet so they poke around looking for an easy meal. After that I am all up on fresh again. Late fall, sometimes sour is good again, very late in the fall.

In chatting with cat guides from all over the USA and Canada more often then not fresh cuts rule the day.

In the deep South, well, they have a thing for stink.....I do not have the same compulsion...must be a Southerner "Thing".

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"
701-281-2300
[email protected]

[Boar]

I got out fished with creek chubs vs gold eye at selkirk. The turtle river is full of em. You can sit a watch em pop the cottonwood seed as it settles on the surface, gave me an idea to use a white dry fly an fly fish'n bobber to cast, good way to stock up on the little suckers and fun to. Hey ed, why do ya scale the bait prior to chunk'n em? esier to chunk? later boar

[Guest]

Goldeye & Mooneye also eat there share of cottonwood fluff, cats and Madtoms do too. I have seen channel cats that look like throw pillows all puffed up on cottonwood fluff.

Why scale?

I scale them for a couple of reasons. The first is to limit hook fowling from a rough scale on the hook point.

The second reason is based on an Old Chefs trick. By scaling a oily fish it pulls up extra oils to the skin. This will produce a better scent trail in the case of a cut bait. The chef does it to get the crispy skin on a scaled fish when grilled.

------------------
Ed "Backwater Eddy" Carlson

Backwater Guiding "ED on the RED"
701-281-2300
[email protected]