? on Pointer Training?

[Try Too Fish]

OK pointer Trainers!

What do you do this time of year when the pheasants very spooky and would rather run than get up? For me its a difficult deal when you are training your pointer to be staunch and the bird takes off on him.

After a few times of that the pointer begins to think he is a flusher and gives chase,

usually bumping several other birds out of range!

And sometimes if the bird is running when he finds it he does not stop to point! just gives chase. But if the bird is pinned he will point it every time!

Should I whoa him the instant he gives chase, or let him figure out that he wont catch it, and if it is out of range and if he has not pointed it, I wont shoot it!

I think it is important not to get to bent out of shape on this as it may spoil the dogs enthusiasm! But I don't want to miss a training opportunity either!!

So what do you do in these instances??

Thanks for the POINTERS

[Try Too Fish]

I forgot to add that in a perfect world the dog would chase till he pinned the bird! Point the pinned bird! And all would wait till i got there to shoot the bird !

BUt the bird never seems to want too do his part!!

[GSPMark]

The dog needs to learn to hold his point until you get there and release him to reset on the bird. Some time it takes three or four time before the bird will finally hold but normaly you will eventualy get it. If not you were never going to get that bird any way unless you have a poster. Once you done this for a while you will quickly be able to tell if the dog still has the bird or if you need to hurry because he is just waitng on you.

[2 DA GILLS]

I am not sure that I am the best one to be giving advice since this is my first pointer, but I will share what others have shared with me. Overall, I have been told to let the dog figure it out. They need to learn how to work those running birds without bumping the birds. They will bump their fair share birds while they learn how to handle them, but you need to let them learn from their mistakes. The simple fact is that the birds will run at this time of the year and the dog needs to figure out how to hunt them when they run.

The key (as you mentioned) is not shooting the birds that they bump and the dog will figure out that it is not very productive to chase to the point of bumping the birds. I have heard guys say they will shoot wild flushing birds over their experienced dogs, but not the young ones that are still learning.

Some more experience trainers on this site may be able to provide more details on how to use these training opportunities, but this is how have viewed those bumped birds with my dog that is hunting his second season.

[gspman]

Try Too Fish,

I wouldn't try to whoa him when he gives chase as he'll likely not obey the command and you'll end up teaching him to not listen to you.

I'd first try to let the dog figure it out. It may take some time and a lot of birds and could be very frustrating for you but the dog should figure it out at some point. Beware though that there are some dogs that just never really "get it" when it comes to running birds. Also DO NOT shoot a bird your dog intentionally takes out.

Hopefully, your dog will "get it" and eventually it will point and relocate or slowly trail the bird (sometimes called catwalking) and establish a point. This walking point can be nerve wracking. Sooner or later the bird will either hold or it will flush wild. My dog and I have done this point/relocate/trail routine for over a quarter mile on multiple occasions. In my experience the longer the trailing and relocating takes the lower your odds of getting the bird are. You'll also probably find that over time when your dog gives chase after the flush that the distance it chases will reduce over time.

Another point to remember, your dog is not a robot so it will be inconsistent from time to time. There will be days after it gets all this figured out that it will still try to flush the bird just because it's frustrated. When that happens try to get your hands on the dog and bring it back to the spot the infraction occurred and whoa it. This will hopefully put your dog back in the right frame of mind.

Another thing you can try to get the birds to hold is be a little strategic on how you hunt a piece of ground. Sometimes I'll be on an edge and hunt into deep cover and then make a U-turn and hunt back to the edge. Sometimes this will herd the bird(s) to the edge and some will hold. Other times hunting from the thin to the thick will push birds into the thick cover where they may hold. Or try hunting towards a natural choke down point or some sort of "edge". Also don't just follow behind your dog if it is working a bird. When your dog is trailing a bird ask yourself this question - "How can I help my dog pin this bird". If possible, try to swing wide and to the front to help herd the bird towards a spot where it may hold better.

Good luck. It's an exciting journey watching a young pointer put it all together. I've spent the previous 2 seasons watching my Dixie get it all figured out. She cut her teeth mostly on old birds which made it even more interesting. This is the season where she's putting it all together and we're having a blast every time out. You have some good times to look forward to!

gspman

[Wild Willie]

Great topic and good suggestions. I will throw in my two cents worth. Not much you can do about roosters on the run. So many factors get thrown into the mix like time of year, weather conditions, amount/kind of cover, hunting pressure, number of hunters/dogs in your hunting party, etc. etc.

Sometimes running roosters will eventually sit, but most often they will flush out of shotgun range. Your pointer is just exactly that - not a flusher. Have faith in your dog that if the bird freezes and holds so will he for a steady picture perfect point.

I don't mind if mine flashes and holds a false point. Most of the time he will hold steady until I walk pass him to attempt the flush. Some times he will make the relocation call on his own. When he locks down, and we both discover the absence of a bird and no subsequent flush, he will immediately recognize the need to relocate in search of the bird and/or scent trail. I can watch him circle and quarter until he achieves lock-on. I then pick-up my pace and if he starts to get too far in front (out of shotgun range) I will command "Too Far" and hit the vibrate mode on his collar. This usually slows him down enough for me to catch-up. This is key because it allows me to get into shooting range and also provides a good vantage point from which too observe what is going on in front of him. Some times you will be able to observe the grass/cover move as the bird/birds are trying to make their great ground escape. Again, trust your dog's nose...I have seen mine track running birds from thick cover to thin cover, to brush piles and then around the bend, up the fence line to the edge of the field and back again for hundreds of yards until he eventually pins it down or it flushes.

If the bird does decide to flush simply remind you dog "No Bird" or "Whoa" (you do not need to yell at the top of your lungs...just use your "inside the house" voice) with another vibrate reminder on his collar. Eventually he will understand it is fruitless to take chase after flying birds.

Me and Buddy are still a work in progress. My goal is that eventually the following wil become intuitive to him as our hunting partnership continues to grow and mature:

1) Heavy cover means stay close too me

2) Open/light cover and holding birds means it is okay to range

3) Open/light cover and running birds means slow down and stay close

In short...if he can't see me and I can't see him or if the birds are flushing way out in front, then he is out TOO FAR!

P.S. - I forgot to mention that my dog is three years old. I'm confident he knows what he is suppose to be doing out in the field as a pointing breed dog. That is why I personally do not subscribe to only shooting pointed birds over him. The pointing thing is only half the fun...the other half is watching him find and retrieve the dead bird! WHICH IS ULTIMATELY THE BIG PAYOFF FOR HIM FOR ALL OF HIS EFFORTS! I do not recommend this for pups as you want to drive home the whole pointing sequence scenario with your pup and build a solid early/good base foundations from which to build!