Noob visitor to MN could use Muskie guidance

[PDXFisher]

I will be in MN next week (staying in Watertown). Since I first heard stories of the big bad Muskies from my father (who grew up in Waukegan, Ill and visited MN periodically), I have always wanted to catch one. I live in Portland, OR, and there aren't many Muskie options in the area. My girlfriend's family lives in Watertown and has agreed to help me go after muskies this time (have already caught plenty of snakes and bass in previous trips, including through those funny holes you people make in the ice and drop those cameras through and watch a tiny TV for the rest of the day...a rather odd ritual, though the beer helps).

I originally posted in the Mille Lacs forum since that was where people told me to go. We only have a 14' backtroller, so maybe that isn't the best option.

So essentially, this is what I'm looking for:

1. A lake where I can very definitely target muskies

2. If muskies prove too elusive, a reasonable amount of other options (walleye, northerns, bass, etc.). I'm more interested in size of fish than I am in quantity, though I don't want to get skunked if I can avoid it.

3. A place to go that isn't necessarily close to Watertown (though I am certainly interested in hearing about options close as well, I've just already been to Swede, Ida, Dog, etc), as we'd like to get away for a few days up North-ish. Not that Watertown isn't a great place...I've already spent plenty of time in the area during previous trips. I drove through Walker once, looked like a fun place as a for instance.

4. Given the posts I've read about water temps, I'd have no problem driving an extra hour for a colder lake. I'm usually catch and release, never take it out of the water and handle as little as possible (or not at all with pliers, of course I normally use barblesss hooks...) anyway. Forecasts look colder than last weekend, but is it low enough to cool down the lakes at all?

Lodging accomodations would have to be located reasonably close to where we go.

I will have a GPS so coordinates can be used if provided. What depth is too deep to catch a Muskie?

Is there a particular time of day that is poor for muskies? If so, is it just bad for muskies or all species? I'm not the early-riser type, especially coming East two timezones

Does anyone ever fly fish for Muskies? That's my normal method...but I already bought a Shimano for this trip

What is the going rate range for guides?

Thanks!

Derek

[MLmusky]

I would say a 14' boat will be small for Mille Lacs, unless you stick to the Southern Bay.. Muskies are there along with Northerns and Smallmouths, and at night you may be able to hit some rock structures for walleyes. Lakes that are North that have good numbers of fish and may be a little easier to locate and catch would include Shaminau or Alexander, Around the Park Radis area is Mantrap, which is full of muskies.. Cass Lake area has Little Wolf and Plantaganette... Those are a few options that you may want to consider, all lakes are easy to fish and you should at least get a couple follows if you cast some basic lures.. As for fly fishing, watch a guy try like for 7 days straight to catch a musky on a fly rod last year.. He did not even get a follow, not to say it can not be done, but if you have a short time period here and want to hook a fish a bucktail or topwater may be a better option for you, casted on a musky rod...

[DTro]

Since you are staying in Watertown, I would recommend hitting Waconia and Minnetonka. There may be a little more pressure and your odds "may" be a bit smaller, but the time you spend driving you could spend fishing.

Not only that, but your boat might be more suited for those lakes vs some of the larger ponds up North.

Just my thoughts.

[PDXFisher]

Heh, I didn't even bring the fly rod, because being a complete ignoramus about muskies doesn't lend itself well to pioneering experimental techniques. I tend to come to MN relieved that I will be chucking gear for a while instead. That said, in Oregon I fish for Bull Trout using the biggest flies (8-10" or so, articulated) I can tie, fished topwater as obnoxiously as possible like you would a muskie. Great fun.

I have used the lures thread below for inspiration on what tackle to buy. What line do you guys put on your reels? I got a Shimano Stradic 4000FH and have a spool with 20# and one with 12#, will that be sufficient? I was planning on getting a St Croix once I get there, per the recommendation on another thread. Is there a big difference between the Avid and the Premier muskie MH models? I would like a rod that is sufficient for muskies but not so huge I can't even feel a bass or northern.

I will look into those lakes you listed, thanks so much for the suggestions!

Derek

[PDXFisher]

Dtro,

Yes, the driving time is a consideration, but it's only once each way, as I would plan on staying in the area for two nights. It's kinda nice to go someplace new, I've visited around Watertown like 10 times now

[TurnUpTheFishing]

St. Croix only makes baitcasting muskie rods. Do you plan on throwing larger muskie lures or smaller bucktails? I dont think that spinning reel can handle many off the larger muskie lures but could certainly handle medium bucktails if teamed up with atleast a MH spin rod. A muskie can certainly be caught on 20 lb. mono just be sure to have a decent leader. Good luck, I hope you get one.

[PDXFisher]

I would like to throw whatever gives me the best chance. I also brought an Abu baitcaster that I use for Chinook as a backup reel/reel for my companions. So I guess a rod suggestion for each is warranted

I'm not all that good at the baitcaster though, always end up with big knots

[markkstanley]

I would suggest Minnetonka. Put the baitcaster on 7ft or more St Croix or a Gander I8 guide rod and throw medium sized bucktails. I prefer single hook spinner baits myself but trebles are okay. You can throw the bucktails with your spinning gear but I would seriously consider switching to a braided line over mono. 20# mono is minimum. As to where to fish on Tonka look for the weed edges. Anywhere you see bouys is a good place to fish. Muskies are all over the place but fishing has been slow. Tons of sunnies to munch on. You will see fish. And throwing smaller bucktails you will catch a lot of pike and some very nice largemouth. Fish around Crane Island and Eagle Island on the west end and Big Island on the east.

[Noahsark]

All of the above are great recommendations. I would add that the best lure (as stated above) to use would be a non-treble hook spinnerbait made for muskie fishing. These are the best lures for newbies to fish for muskie as you can't work them wrong. I would suggest the Bionic Bucktail Spinnerbait made by Northland Fishing Tackle.

[Ely Lake Expert]

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(have already caught plenty of snakes and bass in previous trips, including through those funny holes you people make in the ice and drop those cameras through and watch a tiny TV for the rest of the day...a rather odd ritual, though the beer helps).

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lmao

[PDXFisher]

Since my line is quite old on the baitcaster, I'd have no problem switching to braided. Which line would you suggest?

I prefer single hooks, anyway. I dread trying to get trebles out and how much more stress and damage it does to the fish. I'd rather miss a few than kill a 20 year old fish.

Minnetonka, huh? My GF's brother is a cop in Mound, so he should be plenty familiar...

[TurnUpTheFishing]

Any braid over 50lb. would work good but 65-80lb. is most commonly used. Everyone has an opinion on which braid is 'better'. Ive used both Powerpro and spiderwire stealth with zero problems. For a rod, like stated earlier the St. Croix Premiers or Guide Series (gander mountain's brand) in Muskie MH actions would be good choices. Dont forget to spend the extra bucks to get a quality leader 80lb+, dont get south bend leaders.

[markkstanley]

I use Power Pro and 12" fluorcarbon leaders 80# variety. My favorite spinnerbaits are CJ Spins especially the silver crappie color followed by Rad Dogs and Grim Reapers.Eagle Tail also makes great single hook bucktails. You can get all the above at Thorne Bros in Fridley. Visit their HSOforum (they are a sponsor so click their link) and give them a call. Their staff are all musky experts and can really help you out. I can't go into the store anymore. Always end up spending way more than I planned to. They are the best there is when it comes to muskies. FYI they also have a great fly fishing operation. Some of them even fly fish for muskies.

[PDXFisher]

OK, I am very poor now. I took a trip to Gander Mtn and Thorne Bros (awesome guys there, BTW). I spent way too much money (got a rod/reel combo for the "inlaws" as well so I won't be the only one fishing for muskie). They have a cabin on Leaf Lake (close to Otter Tail), is there a good lake close to there?

I don't think I was prepared, mentally, for the size of muskie lures. Which probably means I'm not prepared, mentally, for the size of a muskie

So I got a calcutta and a St Croix, and a Gander Special and Abu. I got some powerpro and 100lb titanium leaders. The dude at Thorne hooked me up with as many lures as I wanted to buy. He made me a "starter's set" of things that were successful for him last week on Tonka. I will probably go there and Waconia just to get my feet wet, then maybe head up to Alex or Shamineau later in the week.

Here is the list so far (I'm sure I'm not done):

Pacemaker 5.5

Big Game 8

Lowrider Red

Phatboy Black/Sil

Suick Super10

Marabou Flasher

Wade's Wobbler

3 Double Cowgirls of various colors

2 CJs TDM spin

Boogerman

Llungen #8

Thanks everyone, now to see how this goes!

Derek

[archer59]

Derek... what was the interest rate on that loan?

[PDXFisher]

I'll trade it all for your boat

[DTro]

Wow, nice list. If I took up Musky fishing tomorrow it would take me about a year to accumulate all that

I worked at one of the Ganders for a short time and I would love when a guy would come in and say, "hook me up with everything I need, or what you would buy if money didn't matter." It was a lot of fun and usually took up quite a bit of time, and for the most part they seemed to appreciate it.

[PDXFisher]

Heh, I didn't go all *that* crazy. For instance, it wasn't the Calcutta TE, and it was only the Premier rod...not the Avid. I could only justify so much for something I may only do once or twice a year. I hope the inlaws make use of it all while I'm gone. I have an ice fishing pole they got me, but I think it was more of a joke than functional (duck handle, like Green Hornet in "Grumpy Old Men"). Then they got me a real pole, but the two times I've gone on the ice it was using big spools with a bell and tip-ups. Makes it easier to drink than having to use a pole, I guess...

Is it just me, or do some fishing inventions derive most of their original impetus for creation from the difficulties of drinking and fishing at the same time? I mean...I hear stories that ice fishing was the excuse the kids always gave to go drink on the ice, since the cops wouldn't go out there...making fishing itself a means of making access to alcohol easier. Somehow, Minnesota always finds a way to make me smile

[PDXFisher]

OK, was out on Tonka today between 6:30 and 11:30AM (which is quite a feat for me to get up that early, especially considering time zone change). I didn't catch a thing, of course, ergo, there are no Muskies in that lake.

Just kidding, of course. Saw three huge splashes and one huge orange/gold thing a few feet from shore of Crane Island that if I saw it in Oregon I would call a carp. Had to be 30lbs+, lifted its head out of the water.

We put in at Halstead and tried Hardscrabble point, Crane and Eagle Islands. I tried about everything I had, just to get a feel for it. I had three horrible backlash knots that cut heavily into my time, but I think I've mostly got the casting thing down now. So now the big mysteries for me are the following:

How to use my lures.

The topraiders are just supposed to always be spinning and clapping the water? Or should you let them set for a bit? Jerk em? Vary retrieve speed?

How do you fish a bucktail? I assume there's as many opinions on when/how/if to twitch/jerk as there are people that use them. But until I actually catch a muskie, I will probably automatically assume what I'm doing is wrong.

Wade's Wobbler? Suick has instructions on the back, very helpful. Not so with Mr Wade.

Is walking the dog jerking the bait left, then right?

How to identify water foliage. Is cabbage a euphemism for lily pads? I assume milfoil is that annoying stuff I'm always pulling up with bucktails, the stuff all around hardscrabble point.

The water temp was between 79 and 82. At that temp, do they even go into the shallows? And if they do, are they feeding at that point? Do you fish the weed line, or the drop off? Where should your boat be, in the deep, fishing toward the weeds, or in the shallow, fishing toward the dropoff?

Sorry to be such a noob. I just don't like feeling so clueluess.

Thanks again!

[markkstanley]

Topraiders are straight retrieve but you can vary the speed and stopping them dead every once in awhile isn't a bad thing either. Bucktails are a straight retrieve again but try varying speed of retrieve. Walking the dog is left/right/left/right just like you decribed. No clue about a Wade wobbler.

Cabbage is a weed that grows in 6 to 14 ft. Been pretty much choked out by milfoil on Tonka and it does not look like cabbage.

As to location muskies will follow the forage so you can find them deep or shallow this time of year. I generally stick to the deep weed edge myself and look for big weed flats with a break into deep water in late summer. You were in exactly the right places. The musky fishing has been slow. My guess is the combination of the milfoil being greatly reduced this year and a lot of forage makes it too easy for the muskys. The bass I have been catching look like they haven't spawned yet they are so full of baitfish. I can only imagine what the muskys would like. Just keep at it. You will catch one sooner or later.

[AWH]

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Saw three huge splashes and one huge orange/gold thing a few feet from shore of Crane Island that if I saw it in Oregon I would call a carp. Had to be 30lbs+, lifted its head out of the water.

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That was likely a carp that you saw on Tonka as well. There are some monsters out there.

As far as the Wades Wobbler. Work it much like you would a suick. Pretty much the same type of action. On bucktails I like to pump the rod once or twice on the retrieve. Another thing you can do is reposition your rod when it starts to approach the boat so that it changes the direction that it's traveling. This can sometimes trigger a strike.

Aaron

[PDXFisher]

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That was likely a carp that you saw on Tonka as well. There are some monsters out there.

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Does anyone out here ever target them? They're gaining a greater cult following every week in Oregon. People who never thought they would go after such a thing find it the most fun they've had in years. But then, muddy ponds that have huge fish are a huge novelty in Oregon, maybe not so much around here.

Carp Angler's Group

Forum Thread w/ pics

I'm off to Gander again. I need a box for all these lures, the paper bags just aren't cutting it. Or rather, they're getting cut.

[AWH]

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That was likely a carp that you saw on Tonka as well. There are some monsters out there.

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Does anyone out here ever target them?

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The In-Fisherman boys have done a number of shows targeting monster carp on Mille Lacs. But the more popular thing around here seems to be bow fishing for them.

Aaron

[markkstanley]

THere are some guys who target carp on Tonka. I've even done it myself. It's a blast with lighter tackle. Probably should do it more often but I like to cast or troll not just sit there.

[PDXFisher]

Woot, just figured out Shamineau and Alexander aren't all that far from Verndale, where more of the family lives. There's also some in Wadena, but that side of the family is a little nutty. So I'll be up there the next few days. Hopefully there aren't many tackle shops, since I can't seem to help buying more lures every time I step in one. I'm glad my GF doesn't read these boards or I'd be a dead man.

Anything I should know abot Sham and Alex that isn't in the Sportsman's Connection book?