public roads and public right of way questions

[loc9fisher]

can anyone explain to me what a public right of way is and how its encorporated into a public road. is it a general state-wide regulation, or does it change from highway to county road to dirt road back in the sticks.

the reasoning behind this question is that i was told by a sheriff that i have 66' from center of the public road in each direction that is considered public right of way, and i can access water from it without asking permission from surrounding landowners. then a dnr officer told me that only applies in certain circumstances, and i can only access the water if i can step from the edge of the road directly into the water without touching the shoulder.

this public road splits the lake, with only about 4' of shoulder on both sides. half way down this public road is a sign saying this lake is open to promiscuous fishing and states the rules for taking fish out of this lake. that makes me think i CAN access this lake legally from this road being that the sign was posted by the dnr, and made the sheriff think that too. when i asked a landowner nearby the status of the road and lake i was told it was "kind of private" and was told i wasn't allowed to hunt there.

any help would be great. thanks............loc9

[hanson]

Rules of Thumb for Water Access and Recreational Use

These are simple rules of thumb and are not inteded to address all water access and recreational use situations. If you have doubts about whether you may be trespassin on private land, we recommend that you ask the landowner for permission.

1. What is lawful access?

A stream or lake is lawfully accessible if there is a public access, or if public land or a public road right-of-way abuts the surface of the water, or if you have permission to cross private land to reach the surface of the water.

2. What is recreational use?

Recreational use includes boating, swimming, fishing, hunting, trapping, and similar activities. It includes walking in the water in connection with such activities regardless of who owns the land beneath the surface of the water.

3. What waters are open to recreational use?

A stream or lake is open to recreational use over its entire surface if it is capable of recreational use and if it is lawfully accessible. Any water that will float a conoe is capable of recreational use, but other waters may also qualify depending upon the circumstances.

-----------------------------

Thats all the direction the hunting regulations gives me so I can see why you are asking how far the public right-of-way extends.

In my opinion and interpretation you are OK. We hunt many bodies of water that fit that description and have never had any problems.

In regards to the landowner you talked with, of course that is the answer they will give you. I'm sure most of them don't want you there so they will tell you that and are probably unfamiliar with the hunting regulations anyway.

What I'm wondering about is if you want to press the issue with a landowner who doesn't want you there even if you have the legal right? How much headache will this cause you? If its worth it, its definitely worth consulting the county and the local CO's and then going and hunting the body of water. If the landowner gives you any problems, you have all your bases covered and can make a quick call to the CO to settle the dispute since he is already on your side. The chances are, the landowner isn't informed about the laws either and will get an eye opening experience.

I have a nice body of water near some of my hunting spots that abuts 2 roadways. When the water is high, this pond is actually 2-4' out onto the surface of the gravel road. Legally accessible? No doubt!! But a couple of the landowners have painted a No Trespassing sign on a couple pieces of plywood right where the lake is most accessible. I've honestly never tried to hunt or fish this lake, a confrontation isn't worth it in my opinion and I have spots just as good a quarter mile away.

Thats just my opinion.

[radke22]

They are called landowners for a reason. They own the land, not the water. The right of way is 33' (from Game Warden) and any water in that ROW is huntable.

[delta hunter]

So your telling me that any water that is with in 33' center of a road (highway,county, etc.) I can access even if it is private land?

[jbell1981]

That is correct delta, but it is not always 33 feet. You need to check local laws, I know sometimes it is 50 feet from the center of the road.

[delta hunter]

Where can I check on the local laws?

[Mr. B]

I would be very careful with right-of-way. There is no way you can tell how wide the right-of-way is or where the road is in relation to thr right-of-way by standing and looking at the road or ditches. Unless the right-of-way monuments are visible.

Some right-of-way is an easement (landowner still has underlying fee)and some of the right-of-way is actually owned by the city, county or state.

I would just be very careful when dealing with right-of-way. To me I have not found any places that are worth the hassle and possible confrontation of trying to get some place with questionable access.

[eyepatrol]

In general, my comments are as follows:

Right-of-way is property owned by a township, county, city or state. Right-of-ways are for streets/roads. Their width can vary, depending on a number of factors. Streets are typically 50' wide to about 66' wide in residential areas (25' from center or 33' from center). Townships and county roads are many times 66' wide but can vary up to 150' wide. State roads typically vary from 100' wide up to 200' or more wide. To know what the right-of-way for a road is, you'd have to either contact the owner of the road, or you could go to the county recorder's office and look it up there. Easements can be for either public or private use. You can have a private easement for a field tile line, or you can have a public easement for sewer, water, drainage, electrical, etc. The owner of the platted property owns the land in which the easement lies, but those who have rights to the easements have rights to that portion of the land to make improvements, repairs, etc. for the purpose of that easement. So, when you wonder what the right-of-way width is, take caution as it varies frequently and the best thing to do is contact the owner of the road or go to the county recorder's office and research it.

As to whether you can access the body of water from the road right-of-way, I'm not sure what the law states. One of the FM'ers on here, Lawdog, may be able to help you with that. Otherwise, you would need to consult with the DNR or someone who has knowledge of the law pertaining to access on waters from road right-of-ways.

If you're trying to access a public lake, then I would think you could hunt it, but should be careful of stepping onto private lands. I'm not sure what the law is for hunting on public waters adjacent to private lands. Not sure if there is a "meanderland" buffer around a lake that makes a strip of the land around a lake public, or what. The private property around a public body of water may be defined as the normal water level of the lake, which could cause confusion in defining where that would be located. You'd have to contact the DNR or someone familiar with the law to get a good answer to this question.

If there are ambiguities in the laws or understanding of the laws and there are private land owners who don't favor you hunting the body of water, I'd find somewhere else to go if you're unable to get permission to hunt on private lands. These days, it's not worth trying and having someone take you to court over some tresspassing law.

That's just my $.02 worth.

[ewirz]

I thought I should clarify a little. A Right-of-way is just that, right of use and access. It is not ownership of land. If the Federal, state, county or township has a right of way, it can be used by the public. If a private individual has a right of way, that individual and their assigns has the right to use it. Right of ways/easements are described in deeds or other legal doucments filed on that given piece of land. The County recorder has that info. The width and length of a right of way is decribed in those documents. 25' and 33' from the center line is very common, but not always the case.

[Mr. B]

Do not want to turn this in to a discusion of what right-of-way is but right-of-way can either be an easement or it can be actually owned by the city, county, whom ever is controling the right-of-way.

It all depends on how the right-of-way was taken in the first place. If the right-of-way was taken in fee, it means the city, state or whom ever bought the property.

If the right-of-way was taken by easement, either by document or prescription the original land owner still owns the under lying land and the other entity only has rights to use the easement for what was agreed upon (roadway, drainage & utility, hunting, whatever).

[loc9fisher]

my reasoning for wanting to hunt this water is a matter of scouting, and being bull headed. i realize that it's not worth the hassle as many believe, but i don't like someone giving me the run-around.

examples - the landowner telling me the land is "kind of private

- the DNR officer telling me the names of surrounding landowners and where they hunt on the lake.

- DNR officer telling me "i don't know why you'd want to come way out here, i can think of better spots closer to you."

something seems fishy about all this. its become a personal battle now and i am determined to find out which side is telling the truth. and after i find out the truth i will act legally according to it.

so not to sound like a stubborn dumb swede, but i think i'm going to see this one out to the end. and if i am to get on the lake and authorities are called on me, i will have my bases covered.

i simply don't like people giving false information about public access. when i hear about it or when its givin to me, i become determined to find out the truth.

thanks for all the info everybody...............loc9

[Mr. B]

Good luck. How ever it turns out it sounds like it is going to be interesting.

I can definatly relate to doing something strictly on principal.

[Sartell Angler]

atta way loc9...don't let anybody bully you into staying off of PUBLIC waters just because they want the lake to themselves

for a CO to tell you that there are places closer to home that are better for you to hunt is ludacris--there are so many factors that go into having a good day out hunting that NO spot is better than another ALL the time

best of luck to you out there...if you forsee running into problems while attempting to hunt this new area bring a couple buddies along...he**, I'd do it!

SA/wdw

[Michael8129]

the reasoning behind this question is that i was told by a sheriff that i have 66' from center of the public road in each direction that is considered public right of way, and i can access water from it without asking permission from surrounding landowners. then a dnr officer told me that only applies in certain circumstances, and i can only access the water if i can step from the edge of the road directly into the water without touching the shoulder.

Isn't it nice in a state that has such an unambiguous tresspassing law can have such a ballywick concerning right of way and public access. I really get a hoot out of the characters out in western MN where roads are under water that drive pipes and fence the end of the road as it drops in to the water and post no tresspassing signs... I talked to DNR people on this and the response I get is why cause problems.....HUH? well lets put the shoe on the other foot why post your land and try to keep people out .. you will just cause problems. What kind of logic is that? I should the same right to access to public waters as they have the right to protect private land sheesh! And it should be just as unambiguous

Michael