better my hunting please!

[buckseeker]

in the search for the holy grail
(deer), i ask other hunters to share thier experiances with us to better our abilities in the field.
This day and age we have several amounts of information availible to us. Some useful some not. The best information can be obtained by testimonials from others (in our area). I am looking to gain more knowledge by personal experiances from locals rather then something that worked in Texas or Alabama... We have all read the articles.
Like fishing nobody needs to know exactly where anyone is hunting, but simply what is working. Below are examples please expand and share your expieriances.
How well does rattling work? better time of year?
Does anyone use decoys? Bucks or dos?
Scent suits?
Cover scents?
Scent attractents? (Doe in heat)

Testimonials are better then articles writen out of state.

lets here success stories and failures.

it is better to learn by mistakes rather then get lucky occassionally.

[Mayfly]

For a start, read the "covering my scent" thread below.

[10 poyntr]

I shot my biggest buck 2 years ago cause I'm always hunting when in the woods. By that I mean stalking carefully enroute to your stand, which I always do. I expect to see a deer at all times. I was slowly moving towards my evening treestand that day, stopping and looking many times. I never make a quick walk to the stand.And when I stop , it's always behind a bush or tree. Well, anyway I was within 10 yards of my stand, and I stopped to survey again, looking carefully towards a swamp edge I knew deer like to use. All I saw was antlers above the swampgrass, the wind was in my favor,I knew it, so I let Mr. buck walk slowly to where I had the crosshairs waiting for him. He went right down.(75 yard shot).I'm always hunting in clothes that have been bagged for weeks using pine sticks crushed up from the area I hunt. I pay strict attention to shooting lanes that I set up before season. One small twig or branch in the way could make or break a shot. Also I believe heavily in grunting during several intervals. Good luck to all!

[buckseeker]

mayfly thanks. i did read that article just trying to get more tips on other factors then just scent. again testimonials are worth there weight in gold. hows grunting? anything out there would be great.

good luck hunting all!

[Fisher Dave]

The largest factor that will affect your success ratio is your location. One needs to scout as much as possible to find where the deer are moving and when(if possible). It doesnt take much to change the deer's daily cycle. The area I have been hunting(bow) I was seeing an average of 8 deer an evening. After hunting and me being sighted(busted) 2 times the pattern changed greatly, to the point im lucky to see a single deer. The deer I'm hunting now are only showing at, or after sunset. They are staying in very heavy cover until the light is gone.

It doesnt matter whether we are bow, rifle, muzzle loader... We all have to scout to greatly increase our odds of putting ourselves in shooting range. If possible, try to hunt areas that are not, and have not been pressured by small game hunters.

Scent covers(spray) do help, grunt calls work sometimes, same with rattling antlers. I have never hunted deer with a decoy.

I am not a *professional* hunter, nor would I ever claim to be. I do know that scouting is what payed off for me already this year with a buck, and I am continuing to scout to fill my other tag, and to help my hunting partners fill theirs ... or I'll help fill them for them.

[BLACKJACK]

buckseeker, are you a bowhunter, gunhunter, or muzzleloader? How many years of experience? Looking for Mr. Big or anything brown? Hunting up north or down in the SW?

[jlm]

I would agree with most of what is said in the previous posts. However, in my opinion, the most important factor to taking big deer is the work you put into them before the season starts. First you need to grow bigger than average deer which consists of a lot of sweat, money, and hard work. Food plots that will support the number of deer in your area are important. Most people feel they are doing well with a one, two, or three acre food plots but in most areas you will need five times that to sustain the deer numbers. The most important food source is in the Spring and early Summer for producing big racks. Late season plots are ok but don't do much for antler growth, they are to attact the deer only. Another important aspect is to provide safe zones for the deer that you will NEVER enter. Stay out at all costs so you do not change the deers patterns and you give them a place to call home. They will stay on your property if you do this! A third thing that is very important is not to hunt a deer food source. If the deer is going to the corn field, don't hunt in the corn field because he will never return or will only come at night if he busts you! Hunt his travel routes instead. If you get busted, the deer will just find another route but will still go to the same field. That way you will have multiple attempts to take the same deer. The last important thing to consider is letting those little guys go. They all will grow larger and someday you might run into that smae deer which might be the one of a lifetime. He would never have that chance if he is a 16 inch eight pointer and you shoot him. Oh one other thing, spend every spare second you have in the woods. Those that seem to always tag big deer are the ones who put in the time. IF you do not own your own land, you better start saving your money now because that is where YOU can control the variables. Youor hunting success will be that much better! This is all just my opinion and nothing is based on fact. I am not a pro hunter and do not claim to be. I am only stating what has worked successfully for me! Good luck!

[buckseeker]

My background is 28 years hunting whitetail. i have killed several deer. i don't feel i'm new to the sport but trying to continuly change to better my odds. a trophy deer to me is at least a 140 class animal. how much time do others spend in the field prior to hunting season. in spring better then late winter? just always looking to better my odds.

[simplefish]

I have used them all, buckseeker. I have found that rattling where I hunt just isn't productive. The Buck to doe ratio is off to much. Too many does, the bucks don't need to fight over them. I think the better time to rattle would be during the rut. I have been using scent blocker clothing for 2 years now and haven't had one wind me yet (that I know of). I use scent killer spray, and coon urine on the bottom of my boots. I have used decoys in the past but don't usually during gun season. I use a doe, I feel that it is less threatening. I spray doe pee on her, and estrus doe pee during the rut. My big thing is staying as scent free as possible. Good huntin'.

[DinnerPail]

I have to agree with several of the previous posts. I don't believe there is one real answer to getting that trophy buck. I myself look at deer hunting as a year round project. I scout when ever I get the chance, be it winter, spring, summer or fall. I am always looking at new areas, checking to see what is happening and what has changed. I feel my success over the past few years is contributed to spending time in the woods whenever possible. Things change from year to year so you need to be out there on a regular bases so you can change with them.

I have been hunting deer for 30 years and don't think I am an expert in any way.I just enjoy hunting and sharing it with family and friends.

As far as stories go 3 years ago I had scouted a particular for quite some time before season and knew there was a nice buck in the area. I spent the first weekend setup in what I thought was the prime spot, but only saw several does. Later that week I decieded to check an area close by that I hadn't check for a while. I found sign that just said you need to be here. So that afternoon I moved one of my portables to the top of a ridge overlooking the trail I discovered earlier. The next day I took my son, who had to work the previos weekend and school during the week out to the stand and put him in it. I headed over to a stand I had about a qater mile away and had a seat. About an hour later I heard him shoot. I sat for a few minutes and decieded to check on him so got down a walked over to see what was up. Upon arriving at an empty stand I looked around to see where he was. He was about 30 yards down the ridge. He saw me about the same time I saw him. He shouted Dad I got one and it's big.

The buck was a nice 8 point that dressed out at 196 lbs. It scored 110 5/8, not a trophy to some but to us a memory of a life time. It hangs on the wall at our cabin and my son says thats where it'll stay.

So good luck and time I feel is the key.

[buckseeker]

i was talking to another hunter about decoys. he religiously uses decoys. a tip he offered was to always use a buck decoy and be sure to face it towards the trail you most feel the deer will come from. if facing another direction due to lake of movement it may appear the decoy has spotted danger thus creating caution to approaching deer and sometimes scaring them off.
this is the type of information i am looking for on this thread.

good luck to all!

[BLACKJACK]

jlm, what types of food plots have you had the best luck with? Are the commercial mixes from Imperial and Biologic worth the money or are you using local mixes? I'm starting to get serious about my food plots, giving them some fertilizer and weed control, going to do a soil test next year, let me know what works for you.

buckseeker, as I was sitting in my deer stand last night, I was thinking about your question. I guess the biggest thing that I think about when deer hunting is the wind direction, that dictates what stand I go sit in. If deer get downwind of you, you're busted. I don't believe in the carbon suits, I think your odor will come thru. Same with the scent eliminator stuff, how can it eliminate the scent from your head, face, breath, hands, etc? Same with a lot of the scents, in order to put the scent out you 'contaminate' your shooting area with your scent. Then that fake scent is wafting downwind with your scent... Mmmm, is the deer going to follow that scent trail when its mixed with your scent? Somebody chime in if you've had success with some of the artificial scents, and how you use them, but I really don't believe in them.

I've never had great success rattling either. A couple of times I've had bucks show up 10 minutes later but I don't know if it was the rattling that drew them in. I'm going to keep trying it, someday it might click.

I've also tried a deer decoy the last couple of years, its one of the flat ones from Outlaw decoys. I've never had luck with it, seems like when I use it, I never see deer, but I'm going to keep trying it. Its kind of a pain in the a$$ to carry with, but I want to keep trying it until I see how the deer react to it, whether it will draw them in.

Going to try a blind this year. By having a ground blind available, it gives me the flexibility to try different spots. I think this is another key, having multiple stand sites. When you keep using the same stand over and over, the deer figure that out and avoid it. And you need different stands miles away from each other, if you keep after the same deer, they're going to turn nocturnal on you.

One last big factor is just time in the woods, both before the season scouting and during the hunting season. You can't get a deer lying in bed. A few years ago I woke up, the wind was howling, and the temp was about 5 degrees, I didn't want to go out. After laying in bed for about 10 minutes, couldn't sleep, got up and went hunting and shot a buck that morning.

The time in the woods scouting is especially important if you want a truly big buck, you have to find him first. I myself have never shot a big buck but I haven't put in the time necessary, hunting sheds, glassing fields, etc. But the fall is so busy with other hunting, ducks and pheasants, etc that I'm happy when I can shoot a smaller buck, to me its still a trophy. But if you truly want a big buck, you have to pass on a lot of smaller deer in order to shoot the big one. I do love spending time in a deer stand during early November!!

One last thing, read whatever you can to learn about deer. Bowhunter magazine is a good one, it has some good how-to info and great photos that get you motivated. Deer and Deer Hunting is another good one, it covers a lot of deer biology. Deer are deer whether they're in Texas or Minnesota.

Good luck!

[jlm]

In my opinion, the best food plots for antler growth are anything with a high protien level that germinates right away in the Spring. Clover is a good choice because it is easy to grow and will come back several years in a row if you mow it. You need to have your soil tested though because the PH level in most places in MN is not the best for good growth. The PH level can be changed with the application of lime (sp?). The people who do the testing will tell you how much to apply per acre. The testing is cheap and so is the lime so be sure to do this. Now, after you have worked the land several times and sprayed for weeds, its time to plant. If you drag the seed in and do not use a drill, be sure to over plant! This will make up for the poor germination do to different planting depths. Forget the fancy names and packaged seeds, contact your local seed distributer to get the seeds, its cheaper and is the same thing most of these companies like Biologic use. However, if you don't mind spending hte money, go for it. Next, you HAVE to fertilize the crop. This is very important for fast and continuous growth. Top dress with fertilized a couple of times during the year. If you are looking for alternatives to clover, I would recommend sweet peas, cow peas, or other fast gowing legumes. The deer will eat this stuff quick so plant big plots. You can also use rye and other grasses but the protein content is much less. I would plant grasses like rye later in the season as an attractant plot. They will flock to it once all the fields are harvested, its great! You may also want to consider a feeding program in the late Winter, early Spring to give them a jump start. However, this can be VERY expensive. For mid season plots, soy beans are the cats meow! I would fence it off thouogh so that the plants have a chance to get a good stand. The most important step to all of this is weed control and fertilizer. The fertilizer can be picked up in bulk at any grain elevator for next to nothing. Anyway, thats enough for now...good luck!

[buckseeker]

thanks blackjack and jim. an aquantance of mine happens to raise deer strictly for selling to farms. for truely large antlers his response is feed has little to do with enlarging antlers. genetics make up more then anything. simply put if the bucks genes do not contain big antler history. regardless of quality of food you will not increase its rack. the number one important factor to large deer is age. biggest sprout of antler growth was between years 3 and 4 from his history. still not peaking out till 7 or 8 in some cases. i am not sold on food for antler growth as much as i am sold on food for an attractant. food plots increase everyones chances for several reasons. 1 it gets deer in open terrain which is easier to see and shoot in. another is simply a larger viewable area to see more deer. another i like deer would prefer steak and lobster over mcdonalds any day. but my research does not show food to be as important to over all size as much as the articles make us believe.

agian just simply looking for little tips that others have tried over the years. testimonials.

and most importantly not just for me but for all hunters. i am looking to find everyones secret weapons they have discovered over the years.

again good luck to all.

[jlm]

I would agree that genetics is very important. However, I think the age of the deer and it nutrition are the keys. I say that because most of the state of MN has good genetics. This is pretty evident in looking at the record book bucks that have been taken throughout the state. Almost every county has at least one registered. Age is by far the most important thing but still, quality food enhances the antler mass and length because of the amount of energy and minerals it takes to grow those things. I can tell you from personal experience that it has helped out our deer as we have taken numerous big bucks over the past five years. Prior to that we took medium bucks which we thought were big at that time. We started planting high protein plots about 7 years ago and we noticed a big difference a year or two later. This is just my experience anyway. The good Spring feed is the key in my opinion. To each their own however. Good luck!

[huskminn]

If you've been deer hunting for 28 years and consider a 140 class buck as your trophy minimum, perhaps we should be getting tips from you, not vice-versa!

I moved to MN 18 years ago from western South Dakota. I was a fairly good deer hunter before I came here.....at least one decent buck every year, sometimes up to three. Never shot anything huge, but blew my chances on three that were probably 170 class or better. Deer hunting was all I did for several years in high school--it was what I ate, drank and breathed 300+ days a year.

So, I come to MN, have no private land to hunt and quickly find miserable conditions on public land. In addition, the hunting habitat was bizarre to me. What's this? Sit in a stand all day long? Hope that something crosses your cut shooting lanes because you can't see a deer any place but?

I am still mostly perplexed by MN deer hunting. A kind friend has invited me into a deer camp near Lake of the Woods, but the hunting there is far away and still baffling. The deer habitat isn't the best MN has to offer, but there are deer there, for sure. Some days the group sees 20-30 deer...some weeks, only a handful of deer are seen and sometimes the totals find same doe/fawn groups counted several times.

It seems the deer can appear nearly anywhere at any time...no definitive patterns develop. There does seem to be one particular stand that produces about half the time when there is weather moving in and a south wind. Other than that, inconsistency runs rampant. Most of the activity seems to be nocturnal (even moreso than normal!).

Not everyone in camp is a real serious deer hunter, but a few of us are and we've racked our heads for years trying to pattern the deer, improve stand sites, utilize food plots, etc, etc, etc. Nothing has made any difference one way or another.

I now hunt deer in MN as an afterthought...something fun to do with absolutely no success anticipated. I look to neighboring states for successful hunts, pay the high non-resident fees and go hunt where I know I can find and kill deer and have a legitimate chance at a good buck.

I will admit that I have never created an opportunity to REALLY hunt hard in MN. My work schedule takes me out of state 60% of the time, making it nearly impossible to live a relatively normal life AND spend weekends scouting, building stands, patterning deer, knocking on doors looking for hunting land, etc, etc.

In other words, I'm not ready to write of MN deer hunting altogether....just relaying the frustrating experience it has provided me over the last 18 years. When I came to this state, I probably had 20 deer under my belt in just 8 years of hunting. I've shot one buck in MN in 10-12 years of hunting....

Any advice?

[This message has been edited by huskminn (edited 09-25-2003).]

[BLACKJACK]

Huskmin, food, water, shelter, and sex are the four main things that deer care about. On every deer that your group shoots, cut the stomach open to see what they have been eating, figure out where they're getting that from. If its cold and windy out, they're going to want to be out of the wind, figure out where that spot is. Then concentrate on the trails and ridges and funnels in between. The bucks will be looking for the does that are thinking about food. I do agree that its frustrating early in the season, the deer tend to wander, the weather is nice, they have no reason to find shelter, they can bed anywhere (in contrast to what the writers spout about 'bedding areas').

Part of the whole challenge of deer hunting is trying to figure out how to put yourself at the right spot at the right time, thats why they call it hunting and not shooting. You have to enjoy that challenge or you're setting yourself up for failure. Of course, its still nice to shoot something now and then, nice sunsets only go so far. Thats where more time in the woods helps, you learn about deer habits and paths. Combine deer scouting with shed hunting, morel hunting, nature hikes, grouse hunting, pheasant hunting.

I could see where you'd be frustrated coming from SoDak, going from open praire to woods hunting is totally different. When we pheasant hunt in SoDak, any deer we jump take off like a bat out of hell, they're used to getting pounded at with a hi-power. Just keep after them, you'll start having some success. I bowhunted for 5 years before I got my first deer!

[jlm]

Where do you hunt at huskminn? Sounds like you have had some terrible experiences! There is a lot of country out there, I would suggest that you look around a little. There is tons of public land in MN and some very good deer hunting areas. If you are willing to drive, I can put you on to some areas I hunted at one time. All hold quality deer and in good numbers. All have camping close by to! Let me know! I am at [email protected]

[buckseeker]

huskminn, this is exactly what i am looking for. you mentioned blowing your chances on 3 170 class deer and never taking a huge buck. please share with me what happened to blow them chances. again i am no expert but i continue my quest to become a better hunter at all costs. i intend on gaining at least something from others successes or disasters. i would really like to know what happened to you so i hopefully will avoidthat same mistake. the most important thing is the chances of you and i hunting the same tract will be far and few. so please share with the readers what not to do.

all hunters out there. this is what i want to know and hear. also success stories are very helpfull as well.

i will be out this weekend at some land i hunt in southern mn. i have scouted and seen a few good bucks. nothing huge yet but who knows. i will keep all posted.

i plan on grunting, using a decoy and ratling. the land is fruitful in the fact it has all key ingrediants to sustain mature deer. i only hope my short tme there will produce.

good luck to all and slay the big guy!

[huskminn]

In SD, I hunted everything....pine forests with aspen stands, creek/river bottoms with heavy cover, open prairies with not a tree in sight, river breaks with heavy stands of juniper and seriously rugged badlands terrain. It IS different than MN, but it's not like I just wandered out of the grassland and was dumbfounded by the sight of a tree.

Blackjack, you're right about one thing. I don't spend enough time in MN shed hunting, scouting, patterning, setting up multiple stand sites, etc. The last time I did that, about three years ago, what I thought would be a great area with few people was an absolute madhouse on opening day. Obviously, I picked the wrong spot for a safe, enjoyable hunt.

As far as doing everything else you've mentioned....you are absolutely correct and all of that has been attempted to some degree. If I were really serious about deer hunting in MN, I would spend every weekend and half my vacation scouting. However, I would end up divorced and probably jobless. As a good friend of mine would say, Looks like I've got my priorities all mixed up.

And JLM, I don't mind driving a bit. But, if you were me, would you drive 5-6-7 hours to get to that relatively uncrowded public land in MN or would you drive the same amount of time to SD where the success rate is significantly higher and there are fewer people?

Geez.....sounds like I'm just whining. Maybe I am. I would be interested in hearing how some of you approach deer hunting in MN. Private or Public? Same spot for years and years or new ones all the time? How many other hunters do you expect to see in the woods, walking by your stand? What kind of success percentage do you have year after year? How often do you scout?

Buckseeker, I'll have to get back to you on the 170 class deer....this post is too long already.

[This message has been edited by huskminn (edited 09-26-2003).]

[buckseeker]

well good news and bad. i was able to see several bucks. i felt everything was going good but made 1 minor mistake. did not have any effect on final outcome. friday night seen a deer to the left low and behold it was a little buck. i watched him and he came out staring in the direction he had come from. now i am the kind of hunter who can not stand for long periods of time so i typically sit on my portable until i see something or it gets closer to dusk when i need to be ready at all costs. the mistake i made was i did not stand up after seeing this little buck. i figured he was not a shooter so let him be. as i watched i seen another deer coming it pops out low and behold another buck. here comes a third and then i seen another in the woods. this deer came out of a differant spot as the rest, behind a little point. when he stepped out i thought wow hes a shooter. i got the range finder on him 67 yards and closing. as he faced me i brought up the binos and got a good look. he was just wider then the ears fairly tall (6 to 9) inch tines. but he was an 8 pointer. maybe 120 class deer. i let them go to live another day. he did close the gap to about 45 yards but i was still sitting and not sure about taking. had he been 10 point i would have had to just see if i could draw on him. hard to say but i did not stand up when i seen the first. (bad mistake). lesson learned again.

good luck hunting all.

[BLACKJACK]

Buckseeker, 45 yards sounds like a long shot... Would you have taken that or were you going to draw back and hope they came closer? I know I got busted earlier this year when I let a doe get too close - 20 yards - before I tried to draw my bow back, she saw me and booked.

[buckseeker]

blackjack, 45 yards is a long shot and personnaly i would only attempt if conditions where ideal. typically i will practice out to 60 just for proficiancy. i consider 50 to be my max in perfect conditions. again i had no reason to shoot this buck. also i was sitting. i will not attempt to draw while sitting. good day all in all. i did see 9 deer of which 7 where bucks. 1 nice shooter never came out into field and was to far away. very anxious to get back down there.

i did try to call them closer. i had the primos doe can. this actually spooked them further away. to early in season. i did not grunt.

lets here some success stories and tricks that worked or didn't work.

good luck hunting!

[Guest]

huskminn
I feel your frustration. I live in Minnesota, but hunt deer exclusively in South Dakota, both archery and rifle. I tried gun hunting in Min. two years ago and bagged a buck, but I found the gun/slug thing to be a letdown from the rifle hunting I'm used to. I bagged a nice buck near Aberdeen two years ago with a 350 yard shot. What a rush to reach out there and bag one at long range. I found the slug experience to be less exciting and if I ever hunt deer in Min. again, it'll be archery.

[huskminn]

Chuckee,

I don't own a slug gun, but have thought about getting one to open up more deer hunting opportunities in MN.

It's not an issue of slug vs. rifle for me. Sure, it's great fun to spot a mulie buck at 1/2 mile, plan a long stalk and then find success at the end of it. I do love being in those wide-open spaces. However, it has been difficult for me to find a QUALITY deer hunting experience in MN.

I'd have no problem slug hunting if it meant that I could find a pleasant experience, void of hordes of hunters and a reasonable chance of seeing deer.

Again....my problem is that I have not put in the time necessary to secure a decent place to hunt that is within a 3 hour drive of my home. There are certainly reasons for that, but that is the lifestyle I've chosen for now....no time to spare.

I guess it's difficult for me to lower my expectations when I haven't put forth the effort required to allow for higher expectations.

Funny thing, though.....I was grouse hunting in South Dakota last weekend...public land only. In one day, I saw four bucks, one of them pretty decent quality and all on public land. All of them within range. All of them presenting relatively easy shot opportunities.

If something like this had ever happened to me in MN, I'd have more confidence in hunting here.