2016-2017 nhl Playoffs

[CaptainMusky]

1 hour ago, bbfenatic said:

 

But CM...it is just not those 2 players (a mucker and a minutes guy)...plus we spent quite a bit on a good supporting cast around them so not only was it the $200 Million but apparently the "fill-ins" have not been appropriate.  Do you think Parise and Suter's best years are still ahead...I don't think so!

I know what you are saying, but my comments  were about the instant those 2 guys signed didn't mean we were going to win the Cup just by that addition. The roster before they came here was terrible. Risebrough pillaged draft picks, horrible trades, etc. Houston Aeros had no decent prospects. All of our good prospects were with the big club. They were not ready. Nino, Granlund, Coyle, Brodin, etc. They weren't ready for primetime yet. We just saw this year what their potential might be because they all had career years.

We had missed the playoffs 6 of the prior 8 years before they came! Since those two came we have made it every year.

Do I think Suter and Parise have their best years ahead of them? No. Suter is going to have a longer shelf life and be consistent for several more years. Parise gets the dump beat out of him and no way is he going to be producing at a high level long. The contracts are heavily front end loaded so buyouts at the end will not be nearly as hurtful. These contracts were done right before the new collective bargaining agreement so there is a bit more flexibility with them than there is now.

[lungdeflator]

So if Parise and Suter really want to win, is there a possibility that they restructure these long term deals?  

 

Could a change be as simple as changing captains?  Find some younger guys who want to take on a leadership role and get them involved.  A shake up without really shaking it up.

 

[CaptainMusky]

Lungdeflator, I wish it were that easy. To my knowledge these contracts are essentially guaranteed and you cannot restructure them. I think the only thing they can do while under contract is extend them which could bring down the per year ##, but I believe that's it.

[bbfenatic]

33 minutes ago, lungdeflator said:

So if Parise and Suter really want to win, is there a possibility that they restructure these long term deals?  

 

Could a change be as simple as changing captains?  Find some younger guys who want to take on a leadership role and get them involved.  A shake up without really shaking it up.

 

 

You are on to something Lung...I like this idea....changing of the guard so to speak...let the vets who really have not filled that role well IMO know...we appreciate what you've done but time to hand over the reigns...let the up and comers take control going forward.

[BringAnExtension]

I am surprised that there have not been much said about the Blackhawks getting swept.  I would have been surprised just by them losing the series, but a sweep I never would have guessed.

 

My takes from this:

1. In the NHL any team can win a series.  This is unlikely to occur in any other sport.
2. Pekka Rinne is back.  I would be more concerned about the Wild's chances on Satruday if they were facing Rinne instead of Allen.
3. Crawford is overrated.  While he is an above average goalie, having the high powered Hawks in front of him makes him look a lot better than he is.  He is not good enough to steal games.

 

[Bear55]

I've said this before but signing Parise and Suter showed me exactly how far away we were from a cup but I recall some here thinking the cup was ours that year. Sure we made the playoffs but got smoked by a cup winning Hawks and rightly so because we weren't even close to ready yet. Finally this is the first year (outside of some cinderella run) that we had a legit shot at a cup and you guys want to blow up the team and start over? There is at least 10 other team as good or better than us and people just expect a cup? Get some perspective, this is not something that comes easy. The young guys are just hitting their primes and the old guys have some gas in the tank. We have a quality coach and a very solid roster, Fletcher has done nothing but improve the team since he has been here. A little patience is needed, EVERYONE wants to win a cup that doesn't mean they hand them out like little league awards. Also don't worry about signing Hanzel, we don't have enough money to bring back Haula let alone Hanzel. JEE will be our 3rd line center next year, book it.

Darn those Preds, take out the hawks for us when we were busy digging a giant hole.

10 minutes ago, BringAnExtension said:

 

1. Crawford is overrated.  While he is an above average goalie, having the high powered Hawks in front of him makes him look a lot better than he is.  He is not good enough to steal games.

 

Disagree with this, he might have been bad against the preds  but I didn't watch any games, but he had two cups and has been amazing against us in the playoffs. Praying Dubs can find a playoff gear close to Crawford.

[CaptainMusky]

I wish I could like Bear's post more than ONCE!!!

[bbfenatic]

5 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

Get some perspective, this is not something that comes easy. The young guys are just hitting their primes and the old guys have some gas in the tank. We have a quality coach and a very solid roster, Fletcher has done nothing but improve the team since he has been here. A little patience is needed

 

You realize how long you've been saing this Bear??? Fletch has been the GM since 2009. Being 1 of 16 teams who make the playoffs is not that hard and it's not like we've gone deep under him either....let's come to reality here...we are down 3-1 in the first round to a team so far shows nothing but a decent goaltender...how long do you want this to continue under fletch?

[CaptainMusky]

1 hour ago, bbfenatic said:

 

You realize how long you've been saing this Bear??? Fletch has been the GM since 2009. Being 1 of 16 teams who make the playoffs is not that hard and it's not like we've gone deep under him either....let's come to reality here...we are down 3-1 in the first round to a team so far shows nothing but a decent goaltender...how long do you want this to continue under fletch?

I know the Isles have a special place in your heart, so how long has Snow been holding the reigns (since 2006) and what do the Isles have to show for it? They not only lost every skilled player they had, but dealt away some of their key prospects for washed up nobodies. Look at Nino for Clutterbuck. Their playoff record is just as dubious as the Wild's (not getting out of the second round), but they have also missed the playoffs 2 of the last 4 years.

I would trust Fletch every day of the week and twice on Sunday before Snow. He's a tool.

 

Trust me, I want the Wild to win as much as the next guy. This team midway point of the season they had a legit shot to be a threat or favorite to win it. Back up to the start of the season however. What was everyone saying then? I don't recall anyone, myself included picking them to finish 2nd in the West and a franchise best in points and that was WITH a terrible stretch of games.

 

What have we been asking for the last 3 years? Our young guys to take that next step. This year they did it. Its because of them and the addition of Staal that we had this season. I have no reason to believe this team will not be a contender next year either. Yeah, we are going to lose a guy or two, but we have a very good core. We have some of the best prospects coming up and if we get Kaprisov (he worries me that he will leave KHL) to come in 2018 we should be dominant. By then we will be free of Pominville's contract for sure. Probably bring in some marquee guy and then we will go on to win the Cup 4 of the next 6 years just so we can do it better than the Hawks did.

[Bear55]

2 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

 

You realize how long you've been saing this Bear??? Fletch has been the GM since 2009. Being 1 of 16 teams who make the playoffs is not that hard and it's not like we've gone deep under him either....let's come to reality here...we are down 3-1 in the first round to a team so far shows nothing but a decent goaltender...how long do you want this to continue under fletch?

You realize we beat the Blues two years ago under the exact same circumstances right? We were hot at the end of the year riding the Dub trade and the Blues were one of the top teams in the west that year. Blues had the best record in the NHL since Yoe took over, they are doing what they need to do to win games, just like we did when we upset them. Yes it was an upset because we were not on their level that year but we found a way to win, then of course got swept in the next round because we were good enough yet. Somehow you expect deep playoff runs out of past teams who squeeked into the playoffs and expect a cup because we finally have a good team. You realize there are 9-10 really good teams that don't win a cup every year right? EXPECTATIONS!!! Everything is going to be a let down and look terrible if you keep setting yourself up for failure. Do you also think the Vikes are going to the super bowl every year?

I would keep CF until he is clearly not doing a good job. You have to remember when he was hired we had Koivu, Burns and pretty much nothing else of value, oh and zero prospects, that is when you get fired. Look at us now, a bunch of solid vets, a pile of young guys hitting their primes, great goalie and a very good prospect pool full without many top round picks. Ya we traded away some picks but that is what teams do, take a chance and see what happens in the post season, it sure beats DR sitting on his hands every trade deadline. We have a bright future, even when the vets have moved on we have the potential for a very solid team for years to come. You either be patient and let the chips fall where they may or you freak out and blow it up every year, but how many professional sports teams start a rebuild after finishing 5th in the league standings? Just think about that for a minute. Only the Hawks, Pens, Caps & Bluejackets finished ahead of us, oh and two of those teams are already out of the playoffs.

[bbfenatic]

4 hours ago, CaptainMusky said:

I know the Isles have a special place in your heart, so how long has Snow been holding the reigns (since 2006) and what do the Isles have to show for it? They not only lost every skilled player they had, but dealt away some of their key prospects for washed up nobodies. Look at Nino for Clutterbuck. Their playoff record is just as dubious as the Wild's (not getting out of the second round), but they have also missed the playoffs 2 of the last 4 years.

I would trust Fletch every day of the week and twice on Sunday before Snow. He's a tool.

 

 

Isles will always be special to me but I never have been a Snow fan...he is a tool.

[bbfenatic]

Sorry...no excuses BB...the better team did win....4-1. Lucky for the Wild that Statsny was not playing from the start or it woukd have been a sweep. Love the fact that the national hockey gurus are ripping the Wild right now..and read local Souhans article pretty much what I've been saying. http://m.startribune.com/wild-again-not-good-enough-when-it-matters/420167633/

While Chicago is telling it like it is...the Wild are sending the wrong message...and Chicago has 3 cups in recent past....6 overall...pretty obvious which organization is trying to win the cup every year and which one is happy just "selling tickets".

[Bear55]

Good season Wild, onto next year. Should be some changes but I don't expect us to do anything crazy. Need to sign Granlund and Nino and that will use up a lot of our cap space. Can't afford Hanzel and possibly Haula and Vegas will be taking a player off our hands. I'm more interested to see who can sustain or step up their scoring next year or if anyone regresses. Granlund, Coyle, Nino, Zucker, Dumba, Spurgeon and Brodin all had career years, those are good problems to have. They showed us a lot but I think they still have room to grow and that is what we need. We have a nice cast of vets but they are likely too old to lead us to a cup, they would be in more supporting rolls. Hopefully our now seasoned young core and continue to build on their impressive seasons. Always disappointing to lose, even worse when you can't score against your old coach but I like the our team and hopefully we can keep getting better.

[CaptainMusky]

The sad part of the whole thing, is if they would have somehow found a way to get one in OT to win Game 5, I think they finally got to Allen a bit.

The forward D zone coverage was terrible in the game and for much of the series. Those goals that start out with a player against the boards skating in front of the net are a sign of a forward breakdown. The winning goal was on Zucker. It happens. I know we  were pressing a bit, but that killed us.

 

Now, for the offseason thread! :-)

I would be willing to bet Haula isn't back. Ek, I think is going to be forced into the lineup and play a significant role next season. I would actually like to see Hanzal signed. I was a fan of the trade at the time and still am. I think as a 4th line guy he would be a nice addition.

Perhaps Fletch can convince Pominville to waive his no trade clause to free him up for the expansion draft. I certainly don't expect Vegas to take him, and he wouldn't want to go there, but this would allow the team to protect one other player. We would have to eat some salary if we are able to ink a deal with another team, but I think that is doable.

Russo actually was saying the same kind of thing in a recent interview.

[Bear55]

From the wonderful world of animated gifs.

[bbfenatic]

2 hours ago, CaptainMusky said:

The sad part of the whole thing, is if they would have somehow found a way to get one in OT to win Game 5, I think they finally got to Allen a bit.

The forward D zone coverage was terrible in the game and for much of the series. Those goals that start out with a player against the boards skating in front of the net are a sign of a forward breakdown. The winning goal was on Zucker. It happens. I know we  were pressing a bit, but that killed us.

 

Now, for the offseason thread! :-)

I would be willing to bet Haula isn't back. Ek, I think is going to be forced into the lineup and play a significant role next season. I would actually like to see Hanzal signed. I was a fan of the trade at the time and still am. I think as a 4th line guy he would be a nice addition.

Perhaps Fletch can convince Pominville to waive his no trade clause to free him up for the expansion draft. I certainly don't expect Vegas to take him, and he wouldn't want to go there, but this would allow the team to protect one other player. We would have to eat some salary if we are able to ink a deal with another team, but I think that is doable.

Russo actually was saying the same kind of thing in a recent interview.

 

CM..that is a big "if" and pretty much the story of the series...good puck possession, lots of shots, few goals...and they have to find guys that can score against the "Allen's" of the world going forward...we aren't going to be playing against trash tenders come any playoff time.

 

Agree with your observation on the D zone coverage...way too much stick checking all over the ice by both forwards and Dmen...lack of putting body on opponents is either A  - pure laziness or  B - simply outmatched physically. This has to be addressed going foward.

 

Quite frankly I cannot think of one player that stepped up in the playoffs and played above their reg season...not one. 

 

Haula seems to be a headcase...I don't think he is near as good as he thinks he is and tends to beat to his own drum IMO but we might be stuck with him. Ek will figure it out...playing in the World's now after playing in the Junior World's as well so he'll keep working on his game and be a good one soon IMO.

 

Will be interesting to hear Fletch's spin on things when he assesses things publicly soon but my guess is it will be "the sky is not falling...blah blah blah" same dump every year.  Sounds Like Leo is keeping him unfortunately...but he's made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it and there are not many GM's in the NHL that envy his postion IMO.

 

[Bear55]

What spin is needed? We lost, this happens all the time in the playoffs, that is why they play the games. Our very own team has bounced two division leaders in the past 4 years, are we going to give them credit for those series wins or just completely focus on the negative and whine about everything. There are plenty of positives to take away from this season, really there is a ton to be excited about going forward if you don't solely focus on all thing negative.

[bbfenatic]

1 hour ago, Bear55 said:

What spin is needed? We lost, this happens all the time in the playoffs, that is why they play the games. Our very own team has bounced two division leaders in the past 4 years, are we going to give them credit for those series wins or just completely focus on the negative and whine about everything. There are plenty of positives to take away from this season, really there is a ton to be excited about going forward if you don't solely focus on all thing negative.

 

Just stating the facts as they stand Bear.  You listen or read at all what the national NHL analysts are saying/writing about the Wild's present/recent past/future?  I've said before I love your postivity and I'm glad too that MN has an NHL team. Spin is required to hide the facts, spin is needed to turn what is not good and make it sound good, spin is needed to make it sound like you are doing your job well when in fact we are no closer than we were 3-4 years ago.  Seriously....any chump could have improved the team from what it was when Fletch took over...you and I could have done that. If you just look inside the box, wow we are much improved; but if you look outside the box and compare yourself to the rest of the league you realize we really have not climbed the ladder very much...16th, 15th, 14th, 13th, 12th, 11th, 10th in the NHL does not cut it for me...for you it does and thus our differences and our ability to argue/discuss this back and forth.

[CaptainMusky]

Come on BB, you don't have to be positive or a homer to realize this team is light years better than they were 3/4 years ago.

The results haven't changed, but that isn't saying they haven't improved. 3/4 years ago we had young guys like Brodin, Haula, Coyle, Nino just getting their wings. This year they had career years in many cases. That is precisely what we have been hoping/waiting for them to do.

The way you talk it seems like you forget that the NHL playoffs are best of 7 series. That's a long grind for any team to make and you have to have a lot of luck and some guys playing out of their mind to make it to the finals.

I'm not happy they lost in 5 to the Blues, but I'm not giving up on this team either. They do need to make changes, which will reshape this team for next season. Pump some more youth into the lineup and we could certainly have some up and down next year.

Like I said before, go back and see our predictions for where they would finish at the beginning the of the season. I am pretty sure I said they would finish like 5th place. Finishing 2nd all things considered, was a pleasant surprise, but guess what, everyone whined about it! LOL

[bbfenatic]

3 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

Come on BB, you don't have to be positive or a homer to realize this team is light years better than they were 3/4 years ago.

The results haven't changed, but that isn't saying they haven't improved. 3/4 years ago we had young guys like Brodin, Haula, Coyle, Nino just getting their wings. This year they had career years in many cases. That is precisely what we have been hoping/waiting for them to do.

The way you talk it seems like you forget that the NHL playoffs are best of 7 series. That's a long grind for any team to make and you have to have a lot of luck and some guys playing out of their mind to make it to the finals.

I'm not happy they lost in 5 to the Blues, but I'm not giving up on this team either. They do need to make changes, which will reshape this team for next season. Pump some more youth into the lineup and we could certainly have some up and down next year.

Like I said before, go back and see our predictions for where they would finish at the beginning the of the season. I am pretty sure I said they would finish like 5th place. Finishing 2nd all things considered, was a pleasant surprise, but guess what, everyone whined about it! LOL

 

I stated they are better than 3/4 yrs ago compared to themselves...my point is the Wild are far from a top tier top 8 team when it counts come playoff playoff time...period...no arguing what just happened.  BB was very vocal in the Presser..."we need to get Bigger/Stronger" and Fletch missed that boat time and time again. Career Years are great personal stats...am I happy for Granlund, Staal, Nino...yes...but personal stats only gets you more personal $$, but if those stats don't translate into team goals they are all for naught....and every NHL Player will tell you that.

They did exceed my reg season projection but their true colors showed losing in the first round so over all I was spot on 

IMO this team will be missing more than one of these "career year" guys by the start of the new season if BB has more say...and I am getting the feeling he will be getting more say on personel.

[CaptainMusky]

BB, I cant say I disagree with any of those observations. They didn't produce when it counts. That is what really matters, but it isn't the first time that teams excel in the regular season and flop come playoff time and it certainly isn't something that is isolated to the Wild.

The Hawks get some slack because they have won 3 cups in the last 7 years, but fact is they have been bounced in the last 2 1st rounds too. By that, they are no better than us.

We will see what happens to the Caps. They have a tough draw with the Pens this round, but its not a stretch to say they will get bounced 2 years in a row and be the Presidents Cup winner. Lots of teams have that issue. Anaheim has had that tendency too.

Playoffs are a whole different animal. The team makeup that works in the regular season usually doesn't translate well in the playoffs. I agree the Wild need more beef. Staal certainly helped, but they are far from a heavy team especially on the back end with our D. Early on I thought we had one of the deepest D corps in the league. Looking at them in this playoff series they looked weak. We needed a guy like Folin to step in and play some minutes and make a difference, but he was shell-shocked in his first playoff game. I don't think we have much help in that area in Iowa either. The heaviest guy we have Seeler, is a liability big time and I don't know if he will ever make it up to the big club.

[bbfenatic]

3 minutes ago, CaptainMusky said:

BB, I cant say I disagree with any of those observations. They didn't produce when it counts. That is what really matters, but it isn't the first time that teams excel in the regular season and flop come playoff time and it certainly isn't something that is isolated to the Wild.

The Hawks get some slack because they have won 3 cups in the last 7 years, but fact is they have been bounced in the last 2 1st rounds too. By that, they are no better than us.

We will see what happens to the Caps. They have a tough draw with the Pens this round, but its not a stretch to say they will get bounced 2 years in a row and be the Presidents Cup winner. Lots of teams have that issue. Anaheim has had that tendency too.

Playoffs are a whole different animal. The team makeup that works in the regular season usually doesn't translate well in the playoffs. I agree the Wild need more beef. Staal certainly helped, but they are far from a heavy team especially on the back end with our D. Early on I thought we had one of the deepest D corps in the league. Looking at them in this playoff series they looked weak. We needed a guy like Folin to step in and play some minutes and make a difference, but he was shell-shocked in his first playoff game. I don't think we have much help in that area in Iowa either. The heaviest guy we have Seeler, is a liability big time and I don't know if he will ever make it up to the big club.

 

Good stuff...the main diff between Chicago and Mn was the way the Bowman took ownwership of the problem and Fletch did as expected today and blamed a hot goaltender, danced around pointed questions...he did however admit we are in a tough position with the Cap and few draft choices but steered clear of ownership to that problem....did you listen in by chance...it was almost laughable

[bbfenatic]

They talked today about the D inability to find shooting lanes....I like Reilly's ability to walk the blueline with the puck and shoot quickly...maybe he could help...but he is not physical by any means... BB stated he wants a big physical Dman for starters.

[CaptainMusky]

14 hours ago, bbfenatic said:

 

Good stuff...the main diff between Chicago and Mn was the way the Bowman took ownwership of the problem and Fletch did as expected today and blamed a hot goaltender, danced around pointed questions...he did however admit we are in a tough position with the Cap and few draft choices but steered clear of ownership to that problem....did you listen in by chance...it was almost laughable

I wasn't able to catch it live and when I tried finding it after the fact it wouldn't play on my laptop for some reason.

I do admire Bowman for being visibly ticked about their early exit, but I think that may get pushed a little too far. You tick off Q and he might just walk out the door. Bowman just fired one of his buddies and Q isn't too happy about it. We will see how that plays out. I think the Hawks are in a tougher position cap-wise than the Wild and have been for a few years. The difference is they had been getting no-name guys to emerge and contribute. They could be on a very slippery slope in Chi-town. We will see how that plays out.

[bbfenatic]

CM I agree...and Chicago seems to find those diamonds in the rough...not sure how their AHL team is or if they have more of these "sleepers" coming up from somewhere but I bet they are right back in the finals within a 2-3 years with or without Q.

 

Another article that came in last night on Fletch/Wild http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/04/25/wild-exit-early-fletcher-stays-positive-a-familiar-refrain-in-minnesota/  You might have to Cut/Paste