Wild 2016-17 Regular Season

[bbfenatic]

2 hours ago, Bear55 said:

From my view for the last 5 years we have been trying to get where we are now, the kids finally broke out a bit and the vets had a decent years give or take. Just because we lost in the first round doesn't mean we are on the wrong track. The big thing is we are just fans, we have control over none of this so why worry about it. If they make big changes or not we are stuck with this team. I prefer to look at the positive side and look forward to the future instead of focusing on every little negative thing you can find. Championships are special, all we can do is wait until its our time to win one and getting all crabby and negative over sports is a waste of time. All I know is we are 10 times the team we had 5-6 years ago and that is a good thing, outside of past underdog cup runs by the wild and northstars this is probably our best chance to win. Does that mean we will, absolutely not, there have been hundreds of better teams than have never won a cup. If it was easy everyone would be doing it. 

 

You crack me up Bear...no one has ever said it is easy to win a Cup...it's very hard I agree but that does not mean as fans we just get complacent not winning one in MN....it is pathetic to be out so early or not make the playoffs....and as far as working the last 5 years to get where we are today is my point!  We are no closer to a Cup run than we were last year or even a couple years ago....if you think we are you are sadly mistaken and everyone "in the NHL know" has stated so.  Old vets with large salaries who don't have it, young guys that showed promise during reg season but don't have it....we don't need and will not blow this up but we need to come as close as we can to doing so IMO...and with the exp draft, normal draft, and trading one or two of our better "younger guys who have not panned out" we can change the face of this team.  All teams will take a hit this year so the league will be watered down a bit just becasue. 

 

IMO we need to A - build for a Cup run 3/4 years out;  B - stay competitive to at least make the playoffs; C - take the pressure off the team and close the book on the dissappointing past 5-6 years as quickly as we can and move forward in a slightly diff direction that at least has a chance....as it stands with the current players we have little to no chance to make a Cup run. Chuck's plan has not worked is the bottom line.

[Bear55]

So what happens in 3/4 years and we are geared for a cup run and fail, start over again and try in another 3/4 year. Good and even great teams lose EVERY YEAR. Like I have said before, some people thought we were destined for cup run when Parise and Suter signed here, that is just plain old crazy expectations, if anything that year and the 5 that followed showed us how far away we were. Finally this year we showed signs of major improvement and finished 2nd in the West, you don't blow up a 2nd place team, changes happen every year and everyone is trying to get better. Stop whining and see what happens, there is nothing we can do about it anyway, we are just fans. 

[bbfenatic]

1 hour ago, Bear55 said:

So what happens in 3/4 years and we are geared for a cup run and fail, start over again and try in another 3/4 year. Good and even great teams lose EVERY YEAR. Like I have said before, some people thought we were destined for cup run when Parise and Suter signed here, that is just plain old crazy expectations, if anything that year and the 5 that followed showed us how far away we were. Finally this year we showed signs of major improvement and finished 2nd in the West, you don't blow up a 2nd place team, changes happen every year and everyone is trying to get better. Stop whining and see what happens, there is nothing we can do about it anyway, we are just fans. 

 

Like I said...no need to blow it up but come close....and I am not whining....just complaining on a public forum for us all to banter back and forth...like the other public forums that discuss hockey.....don't like it don't respond...I tend to enjoy the conversations/ideas others post including you.

 

Your speedy little 2nd place team in the West...first round exit needs to change to be better....and I am not talking a 1st place in the West better; that means nothing and ALL the players will agree with that....need to make a Cup run...that is all that matters to the Players, Coaches, Mgrs, and Owners........and Me.  

[lungdeflator]

Yeah none of what we are talking about matters.  Not going to influence Fletcher or Leipold either way.  Compared to everybody else that watches hockey, I rate my hockey knowledge as a negative 100.  It is fun and interesting to bounce ideas and thoughts around with other guys who like to talk hockey though.  It gets frustrating some times though.  

 

Just look at the Hawks organization, they set expectations high every year.  The team, the managers, and even the Chicago media and fans have high expectations.  This sets a standard and accountability for the franchise, and you can bet on them making changes this year even though they were 1st in the West. The Wild as an organization just don't seem to have that cutthroat win at any cost mentality.  We saw it last year when they fired Yoe because the players quit on him. They couldn't put their own personal feelings aside for the betterment of the team.  

 

This is kind of like the Cavaliers in basketball.  They have the best player in the league and make the finals every year, but if they don't win, at what point is just making the finals good enough?   They won last year, but if they go 2 years in the finals without winning again, you can bet the fans and media will be calling for heads.

[Bear55]

Sports is a confusing beast sometimes, the hawks sucks balls for years but sudden they hit on some draft picks and get some hall of fame players and they are a model of success. You can't really copy them unless you find some HOF players too. The Pens did the same thing and landing Crosby and Malkin in back to back years. What happens if Pitt or Chicago ended up with Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and Nail Yakupov? No matter what we do some of this stuff is out of our control and out of the teams control. Where these franchises just better than others or did they get lucky, maybe a little of both but there is just no way to know. For every team that tanks and ends up good there might be 4 or 5 that do the same thing and never climb out of the cellar or never get close to a cup. There are other teams that won without the high drafted HOF players too, there just isn't a single recipe for success. Other than Gaborik at #3 overall we haven't drafted high enough to get some of these players and how pizzed would everyone have been had we been that bad for all the years to do that. Heck I think Pitt nearly lost their team before Crosby showed up. All I am saying is we can't copy other teams, we have to find our own way there and we kind of have to do with the hands we are dealt.

For example lets get a stud #1 center who is top 5 or 10 in NHL scoring. Well the problem is we haven't been lucky enough to draft one of those in our slots and trading for one is equally as hard. Not that we couldn't do it but we might have to gut our team and depth to get it done and we could be left with not enough to contend. 

You also have situations where teams or players are playing well one year and terrible the next or vice versa, Dallas is a prime example. Bobby Ryan has been kind of scape goat for USA hockey recently and maybe not living up to his contract, this playoffs he and Karlsson get hot and the Sens beat some teams they might not otherwise. Some years players show up and have big years, the next year not so much. The year the Wild took out the Blues we had an epic 2nd half. The Blues took us out after getting hot after a coaching change. Nashville was a sleeper half way though the season but turned it on at the right time. The is a ton of parity in the league and the best teams don't always come out on top and it is far more common than the best team in the league winning the whole thing. 

I have said all along people need to keep expectations in check or you just set yourself up for negativity and disappointment. There is no telling what will happen next year and when it will be our time, maybe soon or maybe 50 years from now, as I have said before we have zero control and even the guys in control are still fighting 30 other teams to get there. Plus when you looking at drafting and trading that kind of control to win a cup isn't always possible. If all you do is focus on the negative well that is all you see, instead I like to look at the positive and things really look good now and in the future, we have a fighting chance at a cup run and that is all you can ask for. Sure we need to move on from some of our older players but we have a talented young core and despite not picking high in the draft some decent prospects in the system. Lets just sit back and enjoy the show, it should be fun and entertaining and that is all it should be. 

[bbfenatic]

20 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

All I am saying is we can't copy other teams, we have to find our own way there and we kind of have to do with the hands we are dealt.

 

I agree with everything you stated but my comment on the above is that we can never copy other teams...that's a given but we need to keep up with the times to keep up with the top tier teams.  Simple question; in the 7+ yrs Fletch has been the GM do you think he has gotten us in a good position to make a Cup run next year...regardless of where we were 8 yrs ago?

[Bear55]

Yes I do, we just had our best season in Minnesota hockey history Wild or Northstars, how is that not putting us in a position to be a contender? Now we get to see if it was a one year thing or if this team is legit. For sure it has taken longer that we all wanted but not every kid can step into the league and light it up. Keeping up with the times is important but you have to ask yourself if the times are going to bigger slower players like the clutch and grab years or smaller faster skilled players? Ideally you want a big skilled guy who can do it all but those are extremely rare. Who other than the Kings won without high end skill players? One could argue the Kings had a ton of skill to go with their size as well. You can't get big and tough for the sake of getting big and tough because you will watch other teams out skate and out score you. 

[bbfenatic]

22 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

Keeping up with the times is important but you have to ask yourself if the times are going to bigger slower players like the clutch and grab years or smaller faster skilled players?

 

Bigger/Faster is what is coming out of the Juniors/Colleges now...the days of pigeon holing players as fast/slow or speedy/small are long gone with a few exceptions...and that's where we don't see eye to eye...the NHL is Big/Fast now and the good smaller players are tougher/grittier than ever before like Zach used to be...but now he's too beat up, too concussed to play at a high level.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Bear55 said:

 

Yes I do, we just had our best season in Minnesota hockey history Wild or Northstars, how is that not putting us in a position to be a contender?

 

 

Like I stated before one and done was the end result so we are no closer to contending than previous years...not sure why you don't understand that....reg season means NOTHING...plus that was the culmination year...now we are forced to keep overpaid hacks, move good players, lose some to exp draft....it is going to be a while before we come close to contending and I'd rather them go as young as humanly possible now and I bet they'd be closer to contending in 7/8 years than we are now after these past of 7/8yrs. IMO we will protect Granlund, Coyle, Nino, prbably Zucker, but maybe Staal, and then those we are froced to upfront, like Parise, Koivu Pominville then on the backend I hope they protect Dumba but doubtful, Spurg, probably Brodin but maybe Scandella and of course Suter. So we have OK players we are going to lose and others to throw in the mix for possible trades.

 

Vegas is getting plenty of offers from other teams with overpaid older players like we have and McFee (Vegas GM) has stated they will likely take a couple of those overpriced guys on the books at the price of high draft picks...we have no high draft picks to make deals like that thanks to Chuck.

 

[Bear55]

Look at the top scorers in the league, maybe 3 guys are gritty (Marchand, Getzlaf, Benn). Sure there are some bigger guys but many of them are soft but they have crazy skills that is why they are coveted by GM's. If you look at the best of the best size isn't a factor. Sure it helps but no one is lining up to take Getzlaf or Benn over Kane, McDavid, or Crosby because they aren't gritty enough. 

 

No doubt we bowed out early this year, we weren't playing well at a crucial time of year and our mental/elongated slumps took its toll again, I don't know if anyone has the answer for that but if we can use it to our advantage we might be deadly if we get hot. This is mostly the same team that overachieved and showed promise in the 2014 and 2015 playoffs, laying an egg one year doesn't mean our entire future is trash. No doubt we need to get some contracts off the books, Pommers for one was signed too long after a nice 30 goal season, Koivu needs a pay cut, Parise and Suter had to be done - we all knew that was going to hurt in time but it had to be done and teams were lining up to give them more $$$. If you take a million away from Parise and give it to Suter it makes more sense and doesn't really matter. Other than that the contracts Fletcher is handing out have been great, it will be interesting to see what Granlund and Nino get after their big years but it shouldn't be too bad considering their RFA. 

This was our best year historically and now you want to complain about draft picks when we obviously went for it this post season? Sure it didn't work out but we took a shot and we should have, don't be one of those hind sight draft analysts that gets every pick right 10 years after the fact. If you want changes you might see them because of expansion, guys might get traded or other creative things could happen, it could get a little crazy after the finals are over. 

Honestly BB its been great talking to you, you know your stuff and sorry about that whiney comment a while back. I am just the positive to your negative, we need a balance here right? One thing I nailed last year was BB was our greatest off season move, Staal was a great surprise too but our coach really had these guys playing amazing hockey for most of the year, lets give him 5 years and see what happens. No GM is perfect but Fletcher (despite some mistakes) has put us in a great position to content and that is all you can ask of him. We have a lot of talent on this team, if the stars align and the guys mesh well we can win it all with the parts we have. I have never felt that before, it was always an underdog/miracle type story but right now we are deep and skilled right, sure we don't have the high end talent but we have a lot of talent that could put it all together and make it happen. 

With that said enough of this hockey theory stuff, the cup is almost won and the expansion draft and draft will be here soon. It will be interesting to see what they do and I am excited about next year and hopefully the team can take us somewhere new next year.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bear55

[bbfenatic]

13 hours ago, Bear55 said:

Look at the top scorers in the league, maybe 3 guys are gritty (Marchand, Getzlaf, Benn).

 

Good stuff but one more comment before I depart from this conversation, there are about 15+ high point guys other than the 3 you mention here that are grittier than anyone we have...just go down the list of points and goal guys...even Drouin, Guentzel, and little Atkinson are grittier than most of our guys....the D on the list are much more phyhsical than any Wild Dmen.

 

With that being said I agree time to move on and wait for things to unfold....let's light it up again after the exp draft and normal draft...later dude.

[bbfenatic]

Looks like Boston is in hot pursuit of Brodin...need a left handed Dman...rumor is they are offering a 1st round pick plus Ryan Spooner...take that deal in a heart beat IMO