Confused with different rod specs

[tunrevir]

I was looking at getting some new rods the other day and I an a bit confused with all the different configurations that they have out there now. It used to be relatively simple you had the IM6, 7, or 8 designations. I have seen more reference to 34 million modulus graphite, 64 million modulus graphite and so on and it has left me a bit confused. Is an IM7 as sensitive as a 54 million modulus graphite? I know each company has their own selling points like aramid veil, cross scrim fibers, ect. Anyone want to take a crack at educating the rest of us:) Thanks!

Tunrevir~

[Deitz Dittrich]

Its kinda a hard question to answer.. Standard graphite I believe is somewhere around 33 million Modulus, and IM6 is roughly about 38mill.. IM8 somewhere around 47 Mill. Now where it gets tricky, a rod only has to be ranked at one spot, for them to be able to label it as such. SO, maybe a rod has IM8 or 47million modulus graphite in 4" in the handle, but then is roughly IM6 the rest of the rod. They can still label it as IM8 even though much of the rod is actually IM6, then beyond that, as important as the graphite is, the resign used to hold together that graphite also has a huge part of it. One IM8 rod may use a lighter/stronger and more expensive resign... Thus not all IM8 or any ranked rod is created equal.

Go by feel, dont trust really what the rod says it is. If it feels good and sensitive for you and you can afford it, go for it..

On a side note and something I found interesting when learning about this.. all graphites strands start out the same. The ranking comes from how long the strand is cured. The longer it cures/dehydrates, the stiffer it becomes. Stiffer=less strands needed to make a rod a certain action. Less strands=lighter and more sensitive. Yet there is a pay off to that as well.. also more brittle. Hence why your more expensive lighter rods may be more prone to breakage.

Then you have the newer technology like in the new Nano resign technology which actually is all about the resign and less about the graphite. ok, my head hurts.

[tunrevir]

Thanks Dietz, that was a helpful bit of knowledge. Just wondering if any of the folks on the site that build rods want to weigh in on this. Is a Scheels rod blank better then a Cabela's, BPS or Gander rod? Anyone done the research on the big box brands as to where the blanks come from? I am trying to wrap my head around all the different constructions and of course trying to decide what is affordable versus what is practical for my budget. In a perfect world I'd have the cash to spend 2-300 bucks on each rod but until I win the lottery, I want to know what makes a rod good or better then others. I have owned some top end rods from Fenwick, Shimano and St. Croix and even Cabela's and have liked each one for the applications I have used them for but am just looking for all around knowledge as to what makes a rod good, great or subpar.

Tunrevir~

[Deitz Dittrich]

Well, not to hog the thread, but there are a ton of things that make a rod. The handle and quality of the handle plays a large roll, the quality of the guides used on the rod plays an enormous roll, as well as the spacing used for the guides, and if the guides are placed perfectly on the spine of the rod.

As for the blanks, I would say that 90%+ of today rod blanks come out of China. The only ones that do not that I know of are some of the St. Croix blanks and the G-Loomis blanks.

The quality of the rod also plays a lot in what you are doing with it. You dont need a hugely sensitive rod to throw slip floats. But one that you are jigging with sensitivity means everything. When running cranks, you are looking for a totally different type of quality.

[Deitz Dittrich]

as for which rod is best out there.. I think that is in the eye of the beholder. As what I view as quality may be different than what someone else views. Currently on the market, I think the G-loomis NRX series is second to none, but they also price wise are second to none either. LOL. Pick one up some time and feel how light the rod is. Its crazy. Now when you start talking who makes the best $100 rod or $200 rod or $50 rod.. again, its going to be up to who is buying it.

Pay attention to the guides used-if the guides are straight-if they are in line with the spine of the rod-handle used- weight of the rod...

[Brad B]

Deitz is correct. 90+% of the blanks come from china. the differnce in blanks can be as simple as a different degree taper to the blank. in the case of E glass blanks the difference in the feel of the action can be changed simply by grinding a different taper on the blank. I now for a fact that this is true on the carbon ice rod blanks like thornes sell. the only difference between theirs and the ones I buy from my supplier is the taper of the blank. there is only a limited number of companies that make blanks.

[tolle141]

I regards to thisChina stigma, it all comes down to three quality standard that a product is built to. The US has higher standards so a rod can only be built to say 7-10 grade, whereas China will allow 1-10 grade. The difference is that if two identical rod were built, 1 in China and 1 in the US, the Chinese one would cost significantly less due to the cost of labor and components. The US rod would be identical, but the extra cost would be handed off to you, the consumer.

Now to guide you to your answer, wiki all this stuff, then go to gander, cabelas, or Thorne bros for and afternoon.

[TUCR John]

So the blank has some to do with sensitivity and the handle and the guides having a majority. That is kinda of a loaded statement and I maybe wrong for being the new guy but after building rods for 14 years now I have learned a few things.

Any high end blank you will feel everything. The trick is to get a mid range blank to feel like a GLX, SCV, RX8 blank. Handle is where you can gain a real advantage on the competition. I can make a mid range blank out fish a super high end rod by doing a few things to the handle.

To make the rod even better using very light guides makes a huge difference as well. The lighter the guides the more the rod performs like it would without guides.

A good rod builder will be able to explain much more in person as well.

Check out a local builder TB or TUCR to get advice.

Just my two cents.

[harvey lee]

Welocme to HSO.

I do not mean to say you are incorrect but I am missing what you are saying.

If you can make a handle and guides make a medium quality rod fish more sensitive, then why could you not also do the same with a rod that is alreay sensitive?

If you do the same to both blanks, then how would the mid range blank be better than the high end blank?

I build most all of my walleye rigging rods with micro guides and wood handles. Very light in the end product. Whether I use a SC3 or SC5, they both gain in useabillity doing the same thing to them.

Using the same quality componenets on each rod will make both a better fishing rod. Balancing that rod and making it as light as possible will also help.

Yes, we can make the 3 better but also the 5.

I am sure if you build a SC3 with lighter components than a SC%, then the SC3 will gain on the 5, but if they are build the same, I would see no difference.

I could make a 350 Chev block go faster than a 400 block if I put the better components in the 350 over the 400. Does not mean the 350 motor is faster, simply means I spent more time and money on the 350 and left the 400 all but stock.

[Deitz Dittrich]

Correct

[Ufatz]

Made my first rod in 1978. A few hundred a year after that for a long while. I will let the technicians on here load your brain with good solid information about composition, tapers and compound tapers, modulus and scrim and all the rest.

But let me give you ONE piece of information that will serve you well when you are rod shopping. Le't say you are looking at a plug casting rod to handle 3/8-3/4 oz lures. Take a four foot long piece of 20Lb. mono, tie a 1/2 or 3/4 oz weight to one end. When in the store tie the other end to the tip top of the rods you are interested in. See how the react to the short line and weight.

NOW.....you have an idea how the rod will work for YOU and what you are going to use.

That is all. You're welcome. Carry on.

[tunrevir]

Thanks folks for all of the input it is greatly appreciated. Now, is modulous graphite better or the same or different then say IM6,7,8? Is there a comparable stat as to what corresponds with what? Is cross scrim better then aramid veil? Is spiral technology better then nano technology with special fillers?

Tunrevir~

[harvey lee]

IM6 blanks have a rating of 33-million, while IM7's are 42-million.

Typically the higher the IM#, the higher the modulus number, least that is my understanding.

[tunrevir]

That is kind of where I got to Harv. It gets confusing when they move from the IM to the modulas between brands so you really kind of have to have an idea of how many million modulas is comprable in IM from one rod to the next. Good info Folks! Thanks!

Tunrevir~

[Deitz Dittrich]

yup, but remember a rod only has to have a very small portion of the overall rod to be listed as such. So really, go by feel.

[harvey lee]

I know one ends up spending more but I buy almost all SC5 rod blanks for all my rigging and jiggin rods.

My panfish rods are all the same.

Then it is simply what action or length I would like for each application.

I build almost all of my own so I go with red cedar grips and micro guides to make each rod as ligght as possible. It's nice to have a light balanced rod when one is jigging for hours and hours. Some of the rods I do a fancy wrap or add a decal or 2 but that also adds weight to the rod. The extra decals and epoxy over the decals will add weight and also take away some sensitivity.

I may be spending to much but these blanks are so sensitive.