Finishing a Basement

[soldoncass]

The outside insulation I was thinking about was the r-5 on the blocks. I don't like the idea of r-5 between -30 degrees and + 70....but that's just me.

[amateurfishing]

im pretty sure it covers all block below grade (which is where ours is). i watched em build other homes after ours and that is always what they did around the outside of block foundation completely covered b4 finishing the property grade. is there no for a moisture barrier against the block? am i just better off pulling my current framing out and the poly that is down & just starting over with foil faced? then reframe over that? i guess it does not really matter how its done since supposedly anything i do would be over & beyond code anyway, right?

[soldoncass]

In your picture it looked like a space between the block and framing....how big is that? I think thermax is available in :1/2 ,3/4, 1, and 1 1/2 inch sizes. Maybe you could just slide the right thickness between there, wouldn't have to glue it then. Then just cut some pieces for the top, that covers the block and wall foam....tape joints and top. Do both room ends have bi-level height blocks, or does it step down from full basement to walk-out level?

P.S.- Looked at picture again...it is a step down wall. Do the blocks step all the way to the top, or stop at the half high(bi-level size)?

[amateurfishing]

should there be a vapor barrier covering painted/sealed cinder blocks on inside? ive been told its ok and ive been told dont do it cause blocks need to breathe & let moisture out & you dont want that to build up there, if any moisture barrier is done it should be done as last thing right b4 sheet rock, not against cinderblock, is this true?

[K_Josh87]

i think best bet would be a thermal barrier at the block instead of poly... poly on the "inside" side of the 2x before the rock only exposes your framing to the moisture...

[soldoncass]

+1

I think you have 2 choices: leave the poly on the block,or put foil-backed foam on the block. Putting poly on the inside of the framing, INSTEAD OF on the block is NOT recomended. That would just hold any moisture ,that may get through the block, in the stud spaces. You most definitely DO NOT want it there. Thermal barrier(foam) is best.

[Dave]

Putting poly on the inside of the framing, INSTEAD OF on the block is NOT recomended. That would just hold any moisture ,that may get through the block, in the stud spaces. You most definitely DO NOT want it there. Thermal barrier(foam) is best.

So, 22 years ago, was this "code". That's how they did my house when it was built. Just wondering.

[amateurfishing]

yes, code has definitely changed. to me, this is what is wierd bout the whole process. apperently what was code 9 years ago is a no no now, so how do i know if i am doing the best job for my house when codes constantly change? i know it is what everyone THINKS is best now but may not be true in 5 years.

my local city inspectors have told me since i already have r-5 around outside of foundation, there is no reason to add more insulation inside (actually code changed 3 years ago i think but since our house was built 04ish we are grandfathered in to code during that period). I was also told by city inspectors NO vapor barrier because you want the temp change to happen on outside of cinderblock, NOT inside which would be the case if adding more insulation inside the cinderblock. anyway, i am addding 1 inch rigid pink stuff for noise/energy efficiency (hopefully) directly on cinderblock b4 framing & that will be it. i have struggled & investigated this issue quite a bit and will just go with what inspectors say since they r the ones that have to sign permits.

[amateurfishing]

@ dave, probably.... my neighbor told me thats exactly how he did his 6 years ago & part of the reason this stuff is so confusing, what ur friends or neighbors did 2 or 3 years ago is no longer acceptabe.

[K_Josh87]

yes, code had changed a lot. And yes, there are reasons for it. Its a lot like why our vehicles change... there are a lot of demands for efficiency, and thus. there have been studies upon studies about this stuff... right or wrong, who knows, they will change their minds again someday...

You can only do the best thing they recognize at the time you are doing your work... when you go to buy a vehicle, you can only buy the vehicle with the best efficiency and blah blah blah on the market... The guidlines they set in the codes are the best tried and true tactics for the current construction practices... You can only do they best they have found for the time being... as rules change, products change to "improve" these rules, thus the standard will change again... and the cycle keeps going... Protecto wrap used the be the coolest thing to wrap windows with besides tyvex tape... now I install that protecto wrap in a much more common sense way... why? because someone finally updated the installation guidelines to match the new and improved product...

So, typically the current codes deal best with the current products and practices...

[amateurfishing]

what is the best technique for joining 2 2 x 4 ends together to create 1continuous board....metal plates? screws? other?

[K_Josh87]

for top and bottom plates? Just make your joint half on a stud... two nails each stud...

[amateurfishing]

framing almost done, which would be smarter to start next, electrical or HVAC?

[K_Josh87]

I would do HVAC, and then you are able to run your wires around ducting or plumbing, rather than decide you need to relocate wires after you already have then in...

[amateurfishing]

thats what i figured, thx, just wanted to make sure

[K_Josh87]

No Problem

[amateurfishing]

b4 sheetrock, is it necessary or highly recommended to "reinforce" all the "spaces" (joist gaps) where the wall meets the joist and all the gaps inbetweent the joists so there is solid reinforcement behind sheetrock in the joist gaps or is it ok just to screw into joist for ceiling @ every 16" and screw on wall with tape/mud @ corner? trying to figure out if i need to "reinforce" all my joist gaps with scrap lumber b4 drywalling or is fastening just to joists acceptable, anyone know what contractors do or what is normal?

[soldoncass]

All wall corners need a stud/ nailer on both sides. All ceiling joists,that meet walls, parallel to joists, need a sheet rock nailer for the ceiling rock (if the space is over 4 inches). The sheetrock goes perpendicular to the joists and studs. As long as you use the correct sheetrock on the ceiling, no nailers are needed between joists, where the sheets come together. Hope that makes sense to you.

[K_Josh87]

Kinda depends on the span and what not... typically in most typical sized homes we have done in town we are not to concerned about the trussed moving much, so we backer out the walls that land between and run parallel with the joists, but don't worry about the spaces between the joists. But if you have reason for concern, put them in. It can even be plywood pieces cut to fit. If you do this, and want it to be effective, you need to leave your screws in the joist back from the wall a fair ways, and only screw into the back next to the joint, as this will allow the truss to move, while the drywall is unaffected and "flexes" a bit...

Its much more critical on the upper level with rafters than with the floor joists IMO.

Best of luck

[amateurfishing]

joists r 16 inches just like studs,if rule of thumb is over 4 inches needs backer then i have to put bracers/backers in every one, what a PITA!

.....also, anyone have experience/knowledge on soundproofing? would like to do as much as $$ allows or best bang for buck. double drywall with green glue, insulation, single drywall, plywood & drywall?

ps...left side is top, right side is bottom of pick looking up into joist

[K_Josh87]

You should be able to span that without a backer, rock the ceilings first, and but the sidewalls up tight to it.

Not to sure on soundproofing, but some fiberglass insulation would be you best bet to help deadin the sound...

[soldoncass]

You don't need nailers there for sheetrock....it is a bearing wall, so it can't move around. You do know that the ceiling goes on FIRST right? Then the wall rock gets pushed up against it, the bottom wall sheet butts up to that one....there needs to be a space below the wall rock to the concrete floor. (unless you want moisture to wick up the rock and turn to mildew) The 4 inch "rule" is for walls PARALLEL to the joists....not PERPENDICULAR to them, like the pic shows.

Do a google search on soundproofing rooms. That should give you many options. Tuck insulation up there to start, but many more things you can do, depending on what you want to do in there. Basicly you need to do things that keep the sound waves from transfering through each material to another.

[amateurfishing]

thx so much for the info, LOL yes i do know ceiling first, then walls....i have learned the hard way from previous experience

[soldoncass]

Sound proofing a room.

We did one once for a kids "drum room".....here's what we did. We insulated the ceiling, put sheets of half inch "sound board" (like bulletin board material)on the joists ,screwed metal channels across joists, screwed sheetrock to channels. You don't want sound waves to transfer from one material to the next. You can do the same with walls as ceiling. The other thing to do is use decorating material that OBSORB SOUND, instead of smooth drywall surfaces. ie: acoustical tile, cloth banners, textured wallpaper, create odd angles so echos don't amplify the sounds, carpet walls, cork board, etc. A clean, smooth walled, 4 sided room will NOT be your friend ,to cut down sound waves. The simple things we did helped a lot, but the floor, wall, ceiling coverings help as much or more. They were happy with the effectiveness. Think about the door placement also. Create corners with "soft surfaces" to get into the room. Sound travels in a straight line, unless it can "bounce" off something.... give it "corners" to get out of there. Good luck.

[amateurfishing]

when soundproofing with sound board and ceiling channels, did u notice any difference in the soundproofing between that room and other rooms? was it significant? was it worth the cost to u? i know bout carpeted walls, acoustic boards, etc but but that would take alot of decorating of the wall space away for the family room, right? where did u get soundboard & channels from?