WHY???!!!

[SuddenlySummer]

I thought I'd post this here first because I like Walleyes.

1. Why am I so restricted to catching walleyes in Minnesota?

2. Why are Native Americans allowed to do as they please?

3. Why does the DNR allow the weed harvesters on lake Minnetonka to kill as many walleyes as they can?

Walleyes in the metro area are "weed walleyes". They give up their naturial instincts to live where they have to. There are a few walleyes that go deep and they get caught and that's that.

If you scout one of the milfoil harvesters. you will be apalled at the number of "large" walleyes that get caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Iv'e seen it.

So what does the almighty DNR have to say about this? Or is the money to big?

[Guest]

Actually, I will disagree with your comment that the walleyes natively tend to live somewhere besides the weeds.

In many studies, walleyes have been shown to be weed dwellers that occasionally go out to the sandy bottom flats. Very few people are familiar with this, and it is somewhat disputed, because the studies were done with DNR raised fish that were stocked into lakes, not "natural" fish.

However, since many MN lakes are stocked (including Minnetonka as I recall) the argument holds water -- the fish are more likely to live in the weeds.

[This message has been edited by D-man (edited 07-16-2002).]

[Polar Bear]

As for question 2; The natives can do anything they want as long as they conform to the treaties signed by the US government on our behalf. (Much to the chagrin of Bob Lessard and Bud Grant.)

Actually, as of last week, the Mille Lacs band had not taken their quota yet, even though they could if they so wish.

The hard part for many of us to accept is that a treaty is binding virtually forever ,as I understand it, whether we currently agree with it or not.

Polar Bear

[Walleye_GFA]

Well the hard part is to watch the Indians (excuse me, Native Americans) setup casinos, have the rest of the tax paying citizens maintain the roads, their health care, housing, Youth Centers, etc... then use our constitution against us (as in those who pay the taxes that defend their rights) to perversly interpret a 100+ year old treaty meant to allow subsistance fishing and continuation of the native lifestyle be used to allow for such a small number of the population to commercially wholesale harvest a species...

It is amazing to me that so few Native Americans realize that they benefit from some of the only agreements the US Government ever entered into that have not been ratified in over 100 years...

Think about it, we told the Former Soviet Union to go screw themselves over the nuclear arms / shield issue just last month... amazing our elected officials dont want to be "bad" and ratify 100 year old treaties that ABSOLUTLEY need ratification.

Nuff said for me... Please note, I endorse the rights of the people native to North America being able to live as they did, but things have gone way beyond that.

Walleye_GFA

[SuddenlySummer]

I guess my point was that thoes milfoil harvesters kill a lot of walleyes. A LOT of walleyes.

Oh well.

[Speckled]

So what would happen if they didn't cut the milfoil? As for the Native americans, after years of being lied to and abused by what was and is the US government from the time of our arrival, I think it's great that they can hold the government to thier word. The native americans are not the ones abusing our resources - it's us, we're the fools. Logging in Northenr MN has all but driven the lynx and cougar out of an area it used to inhabit. Big northern pike are quite a rarity, due to to the keeping of big fish in the past. Sunfish pops in numerous lakes are stunted in growth because we've harvested the majority of "bull" gills. The farm runoff muddies and silts over numerous goor trout streams in SE MN causing poor reproduction. Miller Creek - a once excellant brook trout stream is basically dump compared to what it used to be because of all the development up in hermantown by the mall. Spirit mountain golf course will ruin yet another good brook trout stream. Lutsen has greatly reduced the water quality in the poplar river. Northshore mining ruined parts of the beaver river. We introduced Zebra mussels and gobies into the great lakes. How about the Mississippi or the St. Louis, when the st. louis turns over - they say to stay out of the water - all the polutiong and mercury and pcbs, get brought up off the bottem and into the water again. I could go on and on. Can you make a list of the things the native americans have ruined...I can't?

[NINETOE]

Speckled , I think your comparing apples to oranges.

I agree that the Native Americans have suffered! However not by my hand! If you look at any group of people you will find suffering as a result of expansionism which was a popular concept many years ago. We now have come to a place in time that identifies each of us as individuals, members of groups, but also as equal. But in some ways we are not equal do to treaties that are over a hundred and fifty years old.

My culture is not dominant in todays society, however, my ancestors chose to assimilate and join the dominant culture in which they lived. They did not alienate themselves from the rest of the world on a little island someplace. Granted the Native Americans were forced there but that is no longer the case today.

Now to your post.

Logging in MN has its effects and costs. If you have wood products then you understand that! I believe the logging industry has come a long way in recent years.

Fishing in MN is not what it used to be when your Father was a boy. Of course the population is not either, nor is the equipment, nor is the interest. So give the DNR a call and tell them what they should be doing.

Farms do contribute to run off in streams. But I know you eat food from these farms and so do I. Maybe its a neccesary evil. There are several laws pertaining to feed lots and run off, in fact the DNR is working on the problem by enacting "buffer" zones between streams and development. I think they have come a long ways in the past few years with avoiding pollution.

Mining in MN is another neccesary evil. We all use metals in every day life. The direction the mining industry is taking there wont be any more in MN in a few years.

The introduction of exotic species into MN certainly was not an intentional act so its kind of a moot point,besides they have been identified and hopfully will be brought into check.

So now if we take Natives as a whole and non Natives as a whole we cannot compare them as to who has "abused" the Natural Resources because,

Where do Natives buy thier lumber?
Where do they buy thier produce and meat?
Where do they shop and dine out?
Where do they get thier nails,hooks,screws,ect

They buy these items from non Native stores and companies, there for they do not "abuse" the Natural Resources like we do because they dont have to. Not to mention the vast difference between the population of Natives and non Natives. So apples and oranges. Next time compare an industrial nation against an industrial nation and it would be valid.

Oh hey remember all the Walleyes in Red lake? Remember the 2 inch gill nets? Remember the collapse of the lake and community?

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...the beatings will continue until moral improves...

[Speckled]

All these things - you seem to think are necessary evils - i don't think they are. I think we could be more careful and have stricter guidelines.